Brakes on 144 failing

My 144 does not get a lot of use, but today, the brakes
were almost inoperable. I checked for leaks and levels
in the reservoir, but nothing indicated a problem. I
have spent mucho dollars on replacing brake lines and
components on this car, and was surprised it went bad
just by sitting on the driveway.

My guess is that it might be the master cylinder or the
servo unit. I hope my aging Volvo mechanic is still
around, as most mechanics scratch their heads when
they look at a 1969 Volvo 144. The servo is somehow
activated by a vacuum hose, so I wonder if that is
where the problem lies? Any advise on this one?

Sherwin

sherwin dubren wrote:
> My 144 does not get a lot of use, but today, the brakes
> were almost inoperable. I checked for leaks and levels
> in the reservoir, but nothing indicated a problem. I
> have spent mucho dollars on replacing brake lines and
> components on this car, and was surprised it went bad
> just by sitting on the driveway.
>
> My guess is that it might be the master cylinder or the
> servo unit. I hope my aging Volvo mechanic is still
> around, as most mechanics scratch their heads when
> they look at a 1969 Volvo 144. The servo is somehow
> activated by a vacuum hose, so I wonder if that is
> where the problem lies? Any advise on this one?
>
> Sherwin

Just found a test for the brake booster in an old
Chilton Volvo manual. It tells you to put your
foot on the brake with moderate pressure and the
engine off. Then, start the engine maintaining the
same pressure on the brake pedal. If the power
booster is working, the pedal should depress more
at this time. On our car, it doesn't move, so I
am thinking it may be the power booster. Chilton
mentions a vacuum control valve that may have to
be replaced. I don't know if that will fix the
problem, or if these valves are available any
where.

Sherwin

sherwin dubren wrote:
> sherwin dubren wrote:
>> My 144 does not get a lot of use, but today, the brakes
>> were almost inoperable. I checked for leaks and levels
>> in the reservoir, but nothing indicated a problem. I
>> have spent mucho dollars on replacing brake lines and
>> components on this car, and was surprised it went bad
>> just by sitting on the driveway.
>>
>> My guess is that it might be the master cylinder or the
>> servo unit. I hope my aging Volvo mechanic is still
>> around, as most mechanics scratch their heads when
>> they look at a 1969 Volvo 144. The servo is somehow
>> activated by a vacuum hose, so I wonder if that is
>> where the problem lies? Any advise on this one?
>>
>> Sherwin
>
> Just found a test for the brake booster in an old
> Chilton Volvo manual. It tells you to put your
> foot on the brake with moderate pressure and the
> engine off. Then, start the engine maintaining the
> same pressure on the brake pedal. If the power
> booster is working, the pedal should depress more
> at this time. On our car, it doesn't move, so I
> am thinking it may be the power booster. Chilton
> mentions a vacuum control valve that may have to
> be replaced. I don't know if that will fix the
> problem, or if these valves are available any
> where.
>
> Sherwin


It's probably the booster, they have a rubber diaphragm and failure is
very common on any old car as the rubber deteriorates. You can test it
with a hand operated vacuum pump too, just pump some air out and see if
it maintains a vacuum.

Leftie wrote:
> James Sweet wrote:
>> sherwin dubren wrote:
>>> sherwin dubren wrote:
>>>> My 144 does not get a lot of use, but today, the brakes
>>>> were almost inoperable. I checked for leaks and levels
>>>> in the reservoir, but nothing indicated a problem. I
>>>> have spent mucho dollars on replacing brake lines and
>>>> components on this car, and was surprised it went bad
>>>> just by sitting on the driveway.
>>>>
>>>> My guess is that it might be the master cylinder or the
>>>> servo unit. I hope my aging Volvo mechanic is still
>>>> around, as most mechanics scratch their heads when
>>>> they look at a 1969 Volvo 144. The servo is somehow
>>>> activated by a vacuum hose, so I wonder if that is
>>>> where the problem lies? Any advise on this one?
>>>>
>>>> Sherwin
>>>
>>> Just found a test for the brake booster in an old
>>> Chilton Volvo manual. It tells you to put your
>>> foot on the brake with moderate pressure and the
>>> engine off. Then, start the engine maintaining the
>>> same pressure on the brake pedal. If the power
>>> booster is working, the pedal should depress more
>>> at this time. On our car, it doesn't move, so I
>>> am thinking it may be the power booster. Chilton
>>> mentions a vacuum control valve that may have to
>>> be replaced. I don't know if that will fix the
>>> problem, or if these valves are available any
>>> where.
>>>
>>> Sherwin
>>
>>
>> It's probably the booster, they have a rubber diaphragm and failure is
>> very common on any old car as the rubber deteriorates. You can test it
>> with a hand operated vacuum pump too, just pump some air out and see
>> if it maintains a vacuum.
>
>
> I must be OLD - I thought of that test instantly. No research
> required... Hopefully rebuilt units are still available. Not sure I'd
> trust New Old Stock at this point.


I think I've seen boosters from 240s installed on 140s, I don't recall
the details though. Pretty sure you can find something that will fit.

James Sweet wrote:
> sherwin dubren wrote:
>> sherwin dubren wrote:
>>> My 144 does not get a lot of use, but today, the brakes
>>> were almost inoperable. I checked for leaks and levels
>>> in the reservoir, but nothing indicated a problem. I
>>> have spent mucho dollars on replacing brake lines and
>>> components on this car, and was surprised it went bad
>>> just by sitting on the driveway.
>>>
>>> My guess is that it might be the master cylinder or the
>>> servo unit. I hope my aging Volvo mechanic is still
>>> around, as most mechanics scratch their heads when
>>> they look at a 1969 Volvo 144. The servo is somehow
>>> activated by a vacuum hose, so I wonder if that is
>>> where the problem lies? Any advise on this one?
>>>
>>> Sherwin
>>
>> Just found a test for the brake booster in an old
>> Chilton Volvo manual. It tells you to put your
>> foot on the brake with moderate pressure and the
>> engine off. Then, start the engine maintaining the
>> same pressure on the brake pedal. If the power
>> booster is working, the pedal should depress more
>> at this time. On our car, it doesn't move, so I
>> am thinking it may be the power booster. Chilton
>> mentions a vacuum control valve that may have to
>> be replaced. I don't know if that will fix the
>> problem, or if these valves are available any
>> where.
>>
>> Sherwin
>
>
> It's probably the booster, they have a rubber diaphragm and failure is
> very common on any old car as the rubber deteriorates. You can test it
> with a hand operated vacuum pump too, just pump some air out and see if
> it maintains a vacuum.


I must be OLD - I thought of that test instantly. No research
required... Hopefully rebuilt units are still available. Not sure I'd
trust New Old Stock at this point.

James Sweet wrote:

>
> It's probably the booster, they have a rubber diaphragm and failure is
> very common on any old car as the rubber deteriorates. You can test it
> with a hand operated vacuum pump too, just pump some air out and see if
> it maintains a vacuum.

I took my volvo to a Swedish mechanic, who is still working at the age
of 75. I had faith in this guy, because he diagnosed a drive shaft
problem that our regular mechanic missed completely.

This time, I think he is trying to wiggle out of fixing it. He is
giving us erroneous info on what he thinks the problem is. For
example, he says our brake pads with imbedded metallic are causing
a great deal of the problem. I drove the car before it suddenly
failed, and it had no problem stopping. He put on a booster unit
that was laying around his house for who knows how long, and it
didn't work. He thought it was an improvement, but the car still
needs excessive pedal power to stop. I kept running that test of
putting constant pressure on the pedal and starting the engine.
The pedal still does not move. I asked him to put a vaccum pump
on it for testing, and he evades me to do so. I hear hissing
sounds coming from the booster, which I never heard on our
original unit. I think this is air escaping past the diaphragm.
We left the car with him, and I don't know what he is going to
do next. I told him we would try to locate a working booster
unit, but I think that is not very hopeful. Volvo was very
smart to put in this booster unit that cannot be repaired. There
is no kit for it that I know of, and I don't see a way to open
it. The mechanic showed us a booster unit from a 240, and it
was too large and not compatible.

They say a Volvo is for life. I don't think so. We may have to
junk this car because of this stupid problem.

Sherwin

James Sweet wrote:
>
>
> I think I've seen boosters from 240s installed on 140s, I don't recall
> the details though. Pretty sure you can find something that will fit.

I wonder if a booster unit from a car older than a 1969 144 would
work? I have seen kits for them, so maybe they can be brought up
to speed. I don't know where I can get an old booster unit like this.

Sherwin

sherwin dubren wrote:
<snip>

> I hear hissing
> sounds coming from the booster, which I never heard on our
> original unit.

Sounds like a fairly big air leak.

> I think this is air escaping past the diaphragm.
> We left the car with him, and I don't know what he is going to
> do next. I told him we would try to locate a working booster
> unit, but I think that is not very hopeful. Volvo was very
> smart to put in this booster unit that cannot be repaired. There
> is no kit for it that I know of, and I don't see a way to open
> it.

I'm surprised that there's no-one around capable of reconditioning the
booster. You'll need a specialist brake place rather than a Volvo shop,
regardless.

> The mechanic showed us a booster unit from a 240, and it
> was too large and not compatible.

OK. This one may require a bit of 'outside the square' thinking,
provided the original booster can't be rebuilt.

While the 240 booster mightn't bolt right in, the end solution to this
might be *making* something fit. A booster of a similar physical size
from a 'regular' car (with parts still able to be purchased over the
counter) would be a good solution. May just require a little bit of
craftsmanship with the brackets. At the end of the day, they're not
overly complex devices.

Either way, see if you can find a specialist brake shop somewhere near
you.

And failing that - ask your local hot rod club/s how they'd workaround
this sort of thing. There's plenty of old cars cruising around with
entirely different (and better) braking systems crafted together from
more 'normal' parts. There's a fix for this somewhere.

And please, let us know how you get on :-)

Cheers,
Andy.


--
Registered Linux User #478766
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

>
> They say a Volvo is for life. I don't think so. We may have to
> junk this car because of this stupid problem.
>
> Sherwin



Well let's not get carried away here. Even Volvo I don't think expected
many of these to still be on the road 40 years later! This is a classic
car, some parts will be hard to find, some things that are "not
rebuildable" will have to be rebuilt, fabricated, or something modern
adapted to fit. This is just the nature of the beast when dealing with
pretty much any classic. You can't expect replacements for every part on
the car to be manufactured forever. Sometimes you have to do some
searching, or get creative.

Even a new old stock booster is likely to be bad, rubber dries out and
cracks just sitting on the shelf.

Sherwin - you don't say which country you are in but as you are fluent in
English I'm sure you will find an alternative source of help or maybe even
parts if you post a msg in the 140 series wants section.
The forum is much more active than this newsgroup.
Someone on the forum may have had similar problems.

Look here http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=7


Colin ( 2 of 1988 240GL's - only Volvo since 1982 )
--
The eMail address used in newsgroups is invalid - reply to group only for me
to see.
--


"sherwin dubren" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:h7vjpi$v7m$(E-Mail Removed)...
> James Sweet wrote:
>
>>
>> It's probably the booster, they have a rubber diaphragm and failure is
>> very common on any old car as the rubber deteriorates. You can test it

....snip...