1997 V70 Diesel cambelt disaster.

Discussion in 'Volvo V70' started by Joe landy, Sep 3, 2004.

  1. Joe landy

    Joe landy Guest

    Hi all. No, not quite the full breakage, but I have a serious problem
    regarding cambelts.
    I have a 1997 Volvo V70 2.5 TDI, onto which I have just had new cambelts
    fitted (240,000 miles) along with new tensioner and idler pulleys. The car
    has been used for 30 days since having the new belts fitted, and now the
    crankshaft oil seal behind the cambelt pulley has started leaking fairly
    heavily. I had this seal replaced at 160,000 miles, at great expense. Should
    this seal have lasted longer than this, and would the mechanics have noticed
    a small oil leak when they did the belts? When the seal leaked before, I had
    not noticed it, but the dealer informed me that it was leaking during a
    service, so I checked it out myself, and had it sorted about 2 weeks after
    (at the 160k cambelt interval).
    I am now feeling fairly sick at the thought of having to pay for this seal
    to be repaired, and then having to have the cambelt changed again (it's
    soaked in oil, so requires replacing completely) within the same month. I
    paid £375 for the cambelts/tensioners to be changed, and am now being quoted
    another £725 for the complete repair job. With a 7 year old car with this
    mileage, I'm only being quoted £1000 trade-in against a £20K car. Therefore,
    it might be worth quitting whilst I'm (slightly) ahead?? I suspect that the
    car will need a new clutch soon (£700), and it's had tappet rattle for some
    time, so must be getting worn. I've just done suspension, alternator,
    exhaust, air conditioning compressor and tyres, so am feeling a little light
    in the wallet department!
    Does the group suggest that this job would be worth doing, and could I do
    the seal repair myself. I have changed cambelts on all my previous cars, but
    am told I cannot do the belts on the V70 due to the Electronic fuel
    injection/timing requiring setting up with a computer. I am wondering if
    this is only relevant with the Injection-pump belt (separate belt which need
    not be touched), and whether I could change the cambelt myself, and re-fit
    the belt on the correct teeth and set up the tensioner e.t.c. There is a
    small addition to the problem (apparently), in which the crankshaft pulley
    is not keyed to the shaft. It's just on a taper, so requires some careful
    work to get it set up properly.
    Anyone Volvo Techs fancy some out-of-hours work? !!
    I'm looking at 2 year old V70 D5s, or even new shape 2.5 TD (same engine as
    mine) models, and liking them.
    The car is still pretty mint on the outside, and drives as though it has
    life left in it yet. It's got all the toys, electrically adjustable seats,
    new air conditioning gear e.t.c. If I could keep it for another year (still
    got loads of MOT) I'd be happy.
    Your suggestions, enthusiasm or cash offers please!
    Joe Landy
    Peterborough
    UK.

    E-mail joelandyman <at> postmaster.co.uk to reply directly
    All Mail directed at my NTL address is deleted at the server due to excess
    spam.
     
    Joe landy, Sep 3, 2004
    #1
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  2. Joe landy

    Networkguy Guest

    > With a 7 year old car with this
    > mileage, I'm only being quoted £1000 trade-in against a £20K car.
    > Therefore,
    > it might be worth quitting whilst I'm (slightly) ahead?? I suspect that
    > the
    > car will need a new clutch soon (£700), and it's had tappet rattle for
    > some
    > time, so must be getting worn. I've just done suspension, alternator,
    > exhaust, air conditioning compressor and tyres, so am feeling a little
    > light
    > in the wallet department!


    I found myself looking at an expensive repair bill on my 98' S70 TDi only a
    few weeks ago and looking around, I thought it was going to cost me a lot to
    change the car into something newer.

    But it sounds as if you spend a lot of money with your dealer (just like I
    did) so before you start negotiating, speak with the service manager (not
    the sales manager) and tell him you are thinking of changing. After all,
    unlike the sales person, over this sort of mileage, the service department
    have had and will continue to get a lot of money out of you over the next
    few years.

    As I found, when shopping around, with all other Volvo dealers, I was
    finding it had to get £2k for my car and any more than £1k off a £20k car.

    By going to my service manager, I was able to get £3k for mine AND £3k off
    the asking price as well plus of course, they knew EXACTLY the state of the
    car.

    Of course this depends on the dealership but if they know you and want to
    keep you as a customer, the service manager can do all sorts :)
     
    Networkguy, Sep 3, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. Joe landy

    Joe landy Guest

    Hi there Mr network guy.
    Thanks for your reply.
    I don't really spend much money with my main dealer, I do all
    servicing/repairs myself, and just buy genuine parts from the dealer. I use
    them for cambelt changes and injection-pump belt changes, and of course,
    changing the offending oil seal last time round.
    I'm not sure how much buying power I have with them, but all their cars are
    like £20K plus with 40k miles or less on them, and my budget runs to about
    £12k, and I'm not scared of high mileage. I'm looking at a new-shape V70,
    manual, with 2,5 diesel (old engine, same as my 1997) for £11k. To me, this
    seems more like it. I have been a little put off the D5 engine by people who
    say their intercoolers have become clogged with soot, and have needed
    replacing. I assume the turbos kick out a bit of oil, and this cakes up the
    inlet manifolds, and probably throws a lot of rubbish through the engine. I
    wonder if this is why there are so many V70 D5 models for sale with about
    10K to 30K miles on the clock??
    Anyway, I've just added some wondrous oil additive which is supposed to
    swell oil seals and O rings slightly, stopping seepages and giving a year's
    grace. I have heard of people using similar stuff on power steering systems,
    and I was pleased to see that it's available for engine seals too. It's
    called Wynn's Engine stop leak. It's probably just WD40 !!
    I'm hoping this will slow the leak, and give me chance to wash my cambelt
    with some water-washable degreaser or something. I will see how it goes.
    Nothing to lose e.t.c !! It might be time to treat myself to a new one
    within months. Although my car has been valued at £1000, I'm sure I could
    get more than that by stripping it out and selling all the bits on ebay. The
    V70 T5 wheels (Qty 5) would fetch £300 to start with! Then there's the
    CD/Radio/Cassette, the leather seats, the new alternator, the new exhaust,
    the new suspension struts, the spare re-con power steering rack I have in my
    garage, the air conditioning components, the new bottom ball-joint, the
    headlights, the turbo, the ECU, the wiper motors, the doors, the tailgate,
    the quick-release towbar, are we up to £2000 yet?? !!
    Cheers for now.
    Joe.
    Peterborough
    UK.
    1997 V70 TDI 250,000 miles.

    "Networkguy" <04news@##nospamplease##networkguy . co . uk> wrote in message
    news:...

    > I found myself looking at an expensive repair bill on my 98' S70 TDi only

    a
    > few weeks ago and looking around, I thought it was going to cost me a lot

    to
    > change the car into something newer.
    >
    > But it sounds as if you spend a lot of money with your dealer (just like I
    > did) so before you start negotiating, speak with the service manager (not
    > the sales manager) and tell him you are thinking of changing. After all,
    > unlike the sales person, over this sort of mileage, the service department
    > have had and will continue to get a lot of money out of you over the next
    > few years.
    >
    > As I found, when shopping around, with all other Volvo dealers, I was
    > finding it had to get £2k for my car and any more than £1k off a £20k car.
    >
    > By going to my service manager, I was able to get £3k for mine AND £3k off
    > the asking price as well plus of course, they knew EXACTLY the state of

    the
    > car.
    >
    > Of course this depends on the dealership but if they know you and want to
    > keep you as a customer, the service manager can do all sorts :)
     
    Joe landy, Sep 5, 2004
    #3
  4. "Joe landy" <> wrote in message
    news:k6L_c.202$...
    > Hi there Mr network guy.
    > Thanks for your reply.
    > I don't really spend much money with my main dealer, I do all
    > servicing/repairs myself, and just buy genuine parts from the dealer. I

    use
    > them for cambelt changes and injection-pump belt changes, and of course,
    > changing the offending oil seal last time round.
    > I'm not sure how much buying power I have with them, but all their cars

    are
    > like £20K plus with 40k miles or less on them, and my budget runs to about
    > £12k, and I'm not scared of high mileage. I'm looking at a new-shape V70,
    > manual, with 2,5 diesel (old engine, same as my 1997) for £11k. To me,

    this
    > seems more like it. I have been a little put off the D5 engine by people

    who
    > say their intercoolers have become clogged with soot, and have needed
    > replacing.


    The sooted intercooler is caused by EGR which on the D5 is routed into the
    airstream before the intercooler, as opposed to after it on most engines-
    this is to maintain the charge temps as low as possible. A varience on the
    Ford TDCi's is a separate water cooled EGR unit- but these still block up!

    EGR whilst cooling the combustion and leading to less NOx production does
    nothing but hamper mpg and performace and is best disabling if possible. In
    some cases this requires some injinuity as some ecu's measure EGR volume by
    looking for a reduction in air mass passing through the air mass meter when
    it opens the egr valve, so a simple plate wont work as it will cause the MIL
    lamp to light.

    I assume the turbos kick out a bit of oil, and this cakes up the
    > inlet manifolds,


    You do get a tiny amount of seepage from the compressor, but not enough to
    "gum" up the inlet tract.


    Tim..
     
    Tim \(Remove NOSPAM., Sep 6, 2004
    #4
  5. Joe landy

    Joe landy Guest

    Excellent information Tim, many thanks for your reply. My dealer was trying
    to explain this to me, but I don't think he realised I have knowledge on
    diesels.
    It's crystal clear now, and I know what to beware of. Does the EGR require
    regular cleaning or replacement then? I assume the intercooler would block
    up very quickly if the EGR was malfunctioning.
    The dealer who told me about the problem with the D5 reckoned that every
    used model they'd sold had required a new intercooler. I wouldn't like to
    guess their cost, but I think I'd get one from a breakers yard and try
    cleaning it out if I ever needed one!!
    Cheers for now.
    Joe.
    Joelandyman <at> postmaster.co.uk



    " Tim (Remove NOSPAM." <> wrote in message
    news:chi41t$8c9$...
    >
    >
    > The sooted intercooler is caused by EGR which on the D5 is routed into the
    > airstream before the intercooler, as opposed to after it on most engines-
    > this is to maintain the charge temps as low as possible. A varience on the
    > Ford TDCi's is a separate water cooled EGR unit- but these still block up!
    >
    > EGR whilst cooling the combustion and leading to less NOx production does
    > nothing but hamper mpg and performace and is best disabling if possible.

    In
    > some cases this requires some injinuity as some ecu's measure EGR volume

    by
    > looking for a reduction in air mass passing through the air mass meter

    when
    > it opens the egr valve, so a simple plate wont work as it will cause the

    MIL
    > lamp to light.
    >
    > I assume the turbos kick out a bit of oil, and this cakes up the
    > > inlet manifolds,

    >
    > You do get a tiny amount of seepage from the compressor, but not enough to
    > "gum" up the inlet tract.
    >
    >
    > Tim..
    >
    >
     
    Joe landy, Sep 6, 2004
    #5
  6. "Joe landy" <> wrote in message
    news:qQ1%c.612$...
    > Excellent information Tim, many thanks for your reply. My dealer was

    trying
    > to explain this to me, but I don't think he realised I have knowledge on
    > diesels.
    > It's crystal clear now, and I know what to beware of. Does the EGR require
    > regular cleaning or replacement then?


    In a word....Yes. - say every 15-20k miles.

    Tim..
     
    Tim \(Remove NOSPAM., Sep 6, 2004
    #6
  7. Hi Joe,

    You ask whether you can change the cambelt and oil seal yourself.

    The cambelt is fairly easy to change on this model (remember to change the
    waterpump
    as well if not done at the last time you) - but you must have your diesel
    pump checked
    afterwards e.q. at Bosch Diesel Service to make sure that the diesel pump
    still is in a
    correct position (0,25mm with crankshaft on OT). Bosch has electronic
    equipment to test this.

    Changing the oil seal requires that you lock the camshaft with a setting bar
    (2065A, it is
    an Audi tool, the 2.5 TDI engine is from Audi, type is AEL - you can find
    the tool on the internet
    - cost not much) or use a mark on the drive gear for the injection pump when
    refitting the camshaft
    sprocket, tightening torque 30 Nm + 1/4 turn (90 degrees).

    The bearing cap should be coated with sealing compound Silimate AMV 174 003,
    maybe this
    was not done correctly when the sealing was changed last time. Thighten the
    cap with 20 NM
    torque.

    Best regards
    Per





    "Joe landy" <> skrev i en meddelelse
    news:Kl3_c.486$...
    > Hi all. No, not quite the full breakage, but I have a serious problem
    > regarding cambelts.
    > I have a 1997 Volvo V70 2.5 TDI, onto which I have just had new cambelts
    > fitted (240,000 miles) along with new tensioner and idler pulleys. The car
    > has been used for 30 days since having the new belts fitted, and now the
    > crankshaft oil seal behind the cambelt pulley has started leaking fairly
    > heavily. I had this seal replaced at 160,000 miles, at great expense.

    Should
    > this seal have lasted longer than this, and would the mechanics have

    noticed
    > a small oil leak when they did the belts? When the seal leaked before, I

    had
    > not noticed it, but the dealer informed me that it was leaking during a
    > service, so I checked it out myself, and had it sorted about 2 weeks after
    > (at the 160k cambelt interval).
    > I am now feeling fairly sick at the thought of having to pay for this seal
    > to be repaired, and then having to have the cambelt changed again (it's
    > soaked in oil, so requires replacing completely) within the same month. I
    > paid £375 for the cambelts/tensioners to be changed, and am now being

    quoted
    > another £725 for the complete repair job. With a 7 year old car with this
    > mileage, I'm only being quoted £1000 trade-in against a £20K car.

    Therefore,
    > it might be worth quitting whilst I'm (slightly) ahead?? I suspect that

    the
    > car will need a new clutch soon (£700), and it's had tappet rattle for

    some
    > time, so must be getting worn. I've just done suspension, alternator,
    > exhaust, air conditioning compressor and tyres, so am feeling a little

    light
    > in the wallet department!
    > Does the group suggest that this job would be worth doing, and could I do
    > the seal repair myself. I have changed cambelts on all my previous cars,

    but
    > am told I cannot do the belts on the V70 due to the Electronic fuel
    > injection/timing requiring setting up with a computer. I am wondering if
    > this is only relevant with the Injection-pump belt (separate belt which

    need
    > not be touched), and whether I could change the cambelt myself, and re-fit
    > the belt on the correct teeth and set up the tensioner e.t.c. There is a
    > small addition to the problem (apparently), in which the crankshaft pulley
    > is not keyed to the shaft. It's just on a taper, so requires some careful
    > work to get it set up properly.
    > Anyone Volvo Techs fancy some out-of-hours work? !!
    > I'm looking at 2 year old V70 D5s, or even new shape 2.5 TD (same engine

    as
    > mine) models, and liking them.
    > The car is still pretty mint on the outside, and drives as though it has
    > life left in it yet. It's got all the toys, electrically adjustable seats,
    > new air conditioning gear e.t.c. If I could keep it for another year

    (still
    > got loads of MOT) I'd be happy.
    > Your suggestions, enthusiasm or cash offers please!
    > Joe Landy
    > Peterborough
    > UK.
    >
    > E-mail joelandyman <at> postmaster.co.uk to reply directly
    > All Mail directed at my NTL address is deleted at the server due to excess
    > spam.
    >
    >
    >
     
    Per Groth Ludvigsen, Sep 11, 2004
    #7
  8. Joe landy

    Joe landy Guest

    Excellent information Per, thanks very much.
    I will save the text as a file.
    I have actually decided to scrap the car, sell it as parts, and I have
    bought a new shape V70 with the same 2.5 D Engine (Not D5!).
    The cambelt on my new car has been changed early by a main dealer, so should
    hopefully last a while before I have to get it all changed again. It'll
    hopefully last 2 or maybe 3 years with my average mileage, but you can be
    sure I'll have waterpump and oil seal changed at the same time.
    I'm open to offers on the old car before I break it up, but I fear that with
    248,000 miles on the clock, I may be struggling to get any interest!
    Expect to see all manner of parts on ebay shortly! Wheels, Radio/CD,
    Interior, spare steering rack (as advertised on this ng), electrics, lights,
    e.t.c first.
    Cheers.
    Joe.
    Peterborough
    UK.

    joelandyman<at>postmaster.co.uk


    "Per Groth Ludvigsen" <> wrote in message
    news:4142d56f$0$299$...
    > Hi Joe,
    >
    > You ask whether you can change the cambelt and oil seal yourself.
    >
    > The cambelt is fairly easy to change on this model (remember to change the
    > waterpump
    > as well if not done at the last time you) - but you must have your diesel
    > pump checked
    > afterwards e.q. at Bosch Diesel Service to make sure that the diesel pump
    > still is in a
    > correct position (0,25mm with crankshaft on OT). Bosch has electronic
    > equipment to test this.
    >
    > Changing the oil seal requires that you lock the camshaft with a setting

    bar
    > (2065A, it is
    > an Audi tool, the 2.5 TDI engine is from Audi, type is AEL - you can find
    > the tool on the internet
    > - cost not much) or use a mark on the drive gear for the injection pump

    when
    > refitting the camshaft
    > sprocket, tightening torque 30 Nm + 1/4 turn (90 degrees).
    >
    > The bearing cap should be coated with sealing compound Silimate AMV 174

    003,
    > maybe this
    > was not done correctly when the sealing was changed last time. Thighten

    the
    > cap with 20 NM
    > torque.
    >
    > Best regards
    > Per
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Joe landy" <> skrev i en meddelelse
    > news:Kl3_c.486$...
    > > Hi all. No, not quite the full breakage, but I have a serious problem
    > > regarding cambelts.
    > > I have a 1997 Volvo V70 2.5 TDI, onto which I have just had new cambelts
    > > fitted (240,000 miles) along with new tensioner and idler pulleys. The

    car
    > > has been used for 30 days since having the new belts fitted, and now the
    > > crankshaft oil seal behind the cambelt pulley has started leaking fairly
    > > heavily. I had this seal replaced at 160,000 miles, at great expense.

    > Should
    > > this seal have lasted longer than this, and would the mechanics have

    > noticed
    > > a small oil leak when they did the belts? When the seal leaked before, I

    > had
    > > not noticed it, but the dealer informed me that it was leaking during a
    > > service, so I checked it out myself, and had it sorted about 2 weeks

    after
    > > (at the 160k cambelt interval).
    > > I am now feeling fairly sick at the thought of having to pay for this

    seal
    > > to be repaired, and then having to have the cambelt changed again (it's
    > > soaked in oil, so requires replacing completely) within the same month.

    I
    > > paid £375 for the cambelts/tensioners to be changed, and am now being

    > quoted
    > > another £725 for the complete repair job. With a 7 year old car with

    this
    > > mileage, I'm only being quoted £1000 trade-in against a £20K car.

    > Therefore,
    > > it might be worth quitting whilst I'm (slightly) ahead?? I suspect that

    > the
    > > car will need a new clutch soon (£700), and it's had tappet rattle for

    > some
    > > time, so must be getting worn. I've just done suspension, alternator,
    > > exhaust, air conditioning compressor and tyres, so am feeling a little

    > light
    > > in the wallet department!
    > > Does the group suggest that this job would be worth doing, and could I

    do
    > > the seal repair myself. I have changed cambelts on all my previous cars,

    > but
    > > am told I cannot do the belts on the V70 due to the Electronic fuel
    > > injection/timing requiring setting up with a computer. I am wondering if
    > > this is only relevant with the Injection-pump belt (separate belt which

    > need
    > > not be touched), and whether I could change the cambelt myself, and

    re-fit
    > > the belt on the correct teeth and set up the tensioner e.t.c. There is a
    > > small addition to the problem (apparently), in which the crankshaft

    pulley
    > > is not keyed to the shaft. It's just on a taper, so requires some

    careful
    > > work to get it set up properly.
    > > Anyone Volvo Techs fancy some out-of-hours work? !!
    > > I'm looking at 2 year old V70 D5s, or even new shape 2.5 TD (same engine

    > as
    > > mine) models, and liking them.
    > > The car is still pretty mint on the outside, and drives as though it has
    > > life left in it yet. It's got all the toys, electrically adjustable

    seats,
    > > new air conditioning gear e.t.c. If I could keep it for another year

    > (still
    > > got loads of MOT) I'd be happy.
    > > Your suggestions, enthusiasm or cash offers please!
    > > Joe Landy
    > > Peterborough
    > > UK.
    > >
    > > E-mail joelandyman <at> postmaster.co.uk to reply directly
    > > All Mail directed at my NTL address is deleted at the server due to

    excess
    > > spam.
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Joe landy, Sep 13, 2004
    #8
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