99 s-80 (yeah that one) 2.9 popping code p0442, MIL light on... need advice

The story thus far:

Uninformed about the vagaries (read problems) with this year and model,
I bought it used with ~70K miles on it. I spent about $12K back in
2003. I have since put about that back into the car in the form of a
new engine, new PS pump, new tires, new this, new that, and keeping the
codes down. The new engine and PS pump were used, but they were new to
me and better than the dead ones.

AFter the nu-used engine went in (this is summer-04), the Check Engine
light came on, intermittently, but more often than not. Also, the Check
Emissions warning came on, again, intermittently, but again more often
on than off. I finally moved to a state where they take their emissions
testing seriously (Virginia) and have been told that I must get
whatever is ticking the codes fixed.

I got myself an ODBII reader and discovered that there were some actual
problems with the system.
I took it to an independent mechanic who specializes in cranky
Scandananvian autos. They fixed a broken tie rod, replaced the two
tires that hadn't been replaced before, sealed some vacuum leaks,
charged me about $700 and said something really weird for a mechanic to
say, after holding the car for only about two days. What they said was
roughly like this:

Well, we've done what we can do, but there's something with the front
O2 sensors that we just can pin down. We switched em with the back ones
and we switched em left to right, we done did everything we know how to
do, and the damn light won't go out.

I was amazed, as my experience has generally been either of two
options: 1- hold it a lot longer, fix a bunch of junk that might be
related and run up the billable labor hours or 2- clear the codes and
send me on my way, hoping it doesn't pop again. Anyrate, the big advice
here was that it had to go back to the dealership.

I took it to the dealership they recommended, and was told that they
needed to replace the "oil seperator (PCV box)" to continue with
diagnosis. They also did a software update. I did a little research and
asked if this could be cleaned (according to Volvo's TSB on the matter,
it should be, and it's a lengthy process to get it out), he said "No,
and if we wanted to, we'd have to do all the labor of replacing it
anyway, and that's the major component of the $800 pricetage for doing
it. Oh yea, we can't guarantee that this will fix the problem, either.
One last bit of salt, the part for a Chevy costs $2, but for your car,
it's $150." That's not all direct quote, but it covers the substance of
what he said (he did mention the relative cost of PCV boxes for Chevys
and Volvos, which I think was a little cruel).

Anyrate, I said, "No Deal." After an experience getting the car back
from the dealer, I drive it home, notice that the emissions service
light isn't on anymore, and plug in my ODBII code reader. My results
follow:
Codes:
p0442 EVAP Emission Control System Leak (small)
MIL light:
ON (don't need an ODBII reader for that one)
Mointors:
0 Incomplete
7 Ready
Misfire
Fuel
Comp
Catalyst
Evap
O2 Sensor
O2 Sensor Heater

So, I guess the question is: Is this p0442 something related to the PCV
box? Should it really take $800 to fix this? And if there are any
experts on Virginia Emissions Testing, is this something I'm gonna get
flunked over?

"Hollywood" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
> The story thus far:
>
> Uninformed about the vagaries (read problems) with this year and model,
> I bought it used with ~70K miles on it. I spent about $12K back in
> 2003. I have since put about that back into the car in the form of a
> new engine, new PS pump, new tires, new this, new that, and keeping the
> codes down. The new engine and PS pump were used, but they were new to
> me and better than the dead ones.
>
> AFter the nu-used engine went in (this is summer-04), the Check Engine
> light came on, intermittently, but more often than not. Also, the Check
> Emissions warning came on, again, intermittently, but again more often
> on than off. I finally moved to a state where they take their emissions
> testing seriously (Virginia) and have been told that I must get
> whatever is ticking the codes fixed.
>
> I got myself an ODBII reader and discovered that there were some actual
> problems with the system.
> I took it to an independent mechanic who specializes in cranky
> Scandananvian autos. They fixed a broken tie rod, replaced the two
> tires that hadn't been replaced before, sealed some vacuum leaks,
> charged me about $700 and said something really weird for a mechanic to
> say, after holding the car for only about two days. What they said was
> roughly like this:
>
> Well, we've done what we can do, but there's something with the front
> O2 sensors that we just can pin down. We switched em with the back ones
> and we switched em left to right, we done did everything we know how to
> do, and the damn light won't go out.
>
> I was amazed, as my experience has generally been either of two
> options: 1- hold it a lot longer, fix a bunch of junk that might be
> related and run up the billable labor hours or 2- clear the codes and
> send me on my way, hoping it doesn't pop again. Anyrate, the big advice
> here was that it had to go back to the dealership.
>
> I took it to the dealership they recommended, and was told that they
> needed to replace the "oil seperator (PCV box)" to continue with
> diagnosis. They also did a software update. I did a little research and
> asked if this could be cleaned (according to Volvo's TSB on the matter,
> it should be, and it's a lengthy process to get it out), he said "No,
> and if we wanted to, we'd have to do all the labor of replacing it
> anyway, and that's the major component of the $800 pricetage for doing
> it. Oh yea, we can't guarantee that this will fix the problem, either.
> One last bit of salt, the part for a Chevy costs $2, but for your car,
> it's $150." That's not all direct quote, but it covers the substance of
> what he said (he did mention the relative cost of PCV boxes for Chevys
> and Volvos, which I think was a little cruel).
>
> Anyrate, I said, "No Deal." After an experience getting the car back
> from the dealer, I drive it home, notice that the emissions service
> light isn't on anymore, and plug in my ODBII code reader. My results
> follow:
> Codes:
> p0442 EVAP Emission Control System Leak (small)
> MIL light:
> ON (don't need an ODBII reader for that one)
> Mointors:
> 0 Incomplete
> 7 Ready
> Misfire
> Fuel
> Comp
> Catalyst
> Evap
> O2 Sensor
> O2 Sensor Heater
>
> So, I guess the question is: Is this p0442 something related to the PCV
> box? Should it really take $800 to fix this? And if there are any
> experts on Virginia Emissions Testing, is this something I'm gonna get
> flunked over?
>

In a nutshell, P0442 is not associated with the PCV system but with the
vapor handling system for the fuel tank. Common faults are loose gas cap
(probably not your problem), defective gas cap, defective filler neck
gasket. The code will likely cause failure of any emissions test. It should
not cost a lot of money to hunt down; the process is basically to pressurize
the fuel tank with a hand pump (I've used a bicycle pump) and watch the
pressure with a pressure guage (I used a manifold pressure guage that had a
low pressure fuel pump scale.) The various suspect areas are blocked off or
sprayed with soapy water to narrow it down.

Mike

In article <(E-Mail Removed). com>,
(E-Mail Removed) says...
<snip>


The evap codes are a pain in the butt. P0442 small leak can be a split
in the vent hose fitting on top of the gas tank that loves to split, a
fuel cap that won't hold pressure, the engine regueled while running, a
leaky evap purge valve, dirt in the charcoal cannister vent valve, a
defective fuel tank pressure sensor. The best thing to do is hook up
either a VADIS or VIDA machine and run the evap control test to see if
you can spot a valve leaking. If not then smokw test the system to see
if you can see a leak in a vacuum hose.

Once you pinpoint and repair the leak the fuel tank must be between 1/4
and 7/8 full. The outside temperature must be between 40 and 80*F and
the car must be driven after an overnight cold soak. If these conditions
are met two times in a row the monitor may run. At any rate most
emissions tests allow the absence of two monitors as long as the MIL
light isn't commanded on.

Bob
--
The goal when driving is to miss the maximum number of objects.

Michael Pardee wrote:

> In a nutshell, P0442 is not associated with the PCV system but with the
> vapor handling system for the fuel tank. Common faults are loose gas cap
> (probably not your problem), defective gas cap, defective filler neck
> gasket. The code will likely cause failure of any emissions test. It should
> not cost a lot of money to hunt down; the process is basically to pressurize
> the fuel tank with a hand pump (I've used a bicycle pump) and watch the
> pressure with a pressure guage (I used a manifold pressure guage that had a
> low pressure fuel pump scale.) The various suspect areas are blocked off or
> sprayed with soapy water to narrow it down.

Thanks.

So, the follow up questions read like this:
#1 - How do I know if the PCV system has a problem? Would it pop a
code?

#2 - Is the P0442, what's causing the MIL light to be on?

-Hollywood
Thanks again.

"Hollywood" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
>
> So, the follow up questions read like this:
> #1 - How do I know if the PCV system has a problem? Would it pop a
> code?
>
> #2 - Is the P0442, what's causing the MIL light to be on?
>
> -Hollywood
> Thanks again.
>
#1 - Not familiar with the S-80 in particular, but normally there isn't
anything in the PCV system that can be monitored. What I am getting from
User (who is a pro, I believe) is that part of the S-80 PCV is connected to
the vacuum system so there can be a code associated with it... but I
wouldn't know the code.

#2 - P0442 will definitely set the MIL light, but there can be multiple
codes and all must be cleared (by resetting or repair, as necessary) before
the light will go out. In the case of multiple codes, often they are
complaining about different aspects of the same failure.

Mike

Thanks.

Michael Pardee wrote:

> #1 - Not familiar with the S-80 in particular, but normally there isn't
> anything in the PCV system that can be monitored. What I am getting from
> User (who is a pro, I believe) is that part of the S-80 PCV is connected to
> the vacuum system so there can be a code associated with it... but I
> wouldn't know the code.
>
> #2 - P0442 will definitely set the MIL light, but there can be multiple
> codes and all must be cleared (by resetting or repair, as necessary) before
> the light will go out. In the case of multiple codes, often they are
> complaining about different aspects of the same failure.
>
> Mike