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1997 V70 Diesel cambelt disaster.

 
Joe landy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-09-2004
Hi all. No, not quite the full breakage, but I have a serious problem
regarding cambelts.
I have a 1997 Volvo V70 2.5 TDI, onto which I have just had new cambelts
fitted (240,000 miles) along with new tensioner and idler pulleys. The car
has been used for 30 days since having the new belts fitted, and now the
crankshaft oil seal behind the cambelt pulley has started leaking fairly
heavily. I had this seal replaced at 160,000 miles, at great expense. Should
this seal have lasted longer than this, and would the mechanics have noticed
a small oil leak when they did the belts? When the seal leaked before, I had
not noticed it, but the dealer informed me that it was leaking during a
service, so I checked it out myself, and had it sorted about 2 weeks after
(at the 160k cambelt interval).
I am now feeling fairly sick at the thought of having to pay for this seal
to be repaired, and then having to have the cambelt changed again (it's
soaked in oil, so requires replacing completely) within the same month. I
paid £375 for the cambelts/tensioners to be changed, and am now being quoted
another £725 for the complete repair job. With a 7 year old car with this
mileage, I'm only being quoted £1000 trade-in against a £20K car. Therefore,
it might be worth quitting whilst I'm (slightly) ahead?? I suspect that the
car will need a new clutch soon (£700), and it's had tappet rattle for some
time, so must be getting worn. I've just done suspension, alternator,
exhaust, air conditioning compressor and tyres, so am feeling a little light
in the wallet department!
Does the group suggest that this job would be worth doing, and could I do
the seal repair myself. I have changed cambelts on all my previous cars, but
am told I cannot do the belts on the V70 due to the Electronic fuel
injection/timing requiring setting up with a computer. I am wondering if
this is only relevant with the Injection-pump belt (separate belt which need
not be touched), and whether I could change the cambelt myself, and re-fit
the belt on the correct teeth and set up the tensioner e.t.c. There is a
small addition to the problem (apparently), in which the crankshaft pulley
is not keyed to the shaft. It's just on a taper, so requires some careful
work to get it set up properly.
Anyone Volvo Techs fancy some out-of-hours work? !!
I'm looking at 2 year old V70 D5s, or even new shape 2.5 TD (same engine as
mine) models, and liking them.
The car is still pretty mint on the outside, and drives as though it has
life left in it yet. It's got all the toys, electrically adjustable seats,
new air conditioning gear e.t.c. If I could keep it for another year (still
got loads of MOT) I'd be happy.
Your suggestions, enthusiasm or cash offers please!
Joe Landy
Peterborough
UK.

E-mail joelandyman <at> postmaster.co.uk to reply directly
All Mail directed at my NTL address is deleted at the server due to excess
spam.



 
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Networkguy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      03-09-2004
> With a 7 year old car with this
> mileage, I'm only being quoted £1000 trade-in against a £20K car.
> Therefore,
> it might be worth quitting whilst I'm (slightly) ahead?? I suspect that
> the
> car will need a new clutch soon (£700), and it's had tappet rattle for
> some
> time, so must be getting worn. I've just done suspension, alternator,
> exhaust, air conditioning compressor and tyres, so am feeling a little
> light
> in the wallet department!


I found myself looking at an expensive repair bill on my 98' S70 TDi only a
few weeks ago and looking around, I thought it was going to cost me a lot to
change the car into something newer.

But it sounds as if you spend a lot of money with your dealer (just like I
did) so before you start negotiating, speak with the service manager (not
the sales manager) and tell him you are thinking of changing. After all,
unlike the sales person, over this sort of mileage, the service department
have had and will continue to get a lot of money out of you over the next
few years.

As I found, when shopping around, with all other Volvo dealers, I was
finding it had to get £2k for my car and any more than £1k off a £20k car.

By going to my service manager, I was able to get £3k for mine AND £3k off
the asking price as well plus of course, they knew EXACTLY the state of the
car.

Of course this depends on the dealership but if they know you and want to
keep you as a customer, the service manager can do all sorts :-)


 
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Joe landy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      05-09-2004
Hi there Mr network guy.
Thanks for your reply.
I don't really spend much money with my main dealer, I do all
servicing/repairs myself, and just buy genuine parts from the dealer. I use
them for cambelt changes and injection-pump belt changes, and of course,
changing the offending oil seal last time round.
I'm not sure how much buying power I have with them, but all their cars are
like £20K plus with 40k miles or less on them, and my budget runs to about
£12k, and I'm not scared of high mileage. I'm looking at a new-shape V70,
manual, with 2,5 diesel (old engine, same as my 1997) for £11k. To me, this
seems more like it. I have been a little put off the D5 engine by people who
say their intercoolers have become clogged with soot, and have needed
replacing. I assume the turbos kick out a bit of oil, and this cakes up the
inlet manifolds, and probably throws a lot of rubbish through the engine. I
wonder if this is why there are so many V70 D5 models for sale with about
10K to 30K miles on the clock??
Anyway, I've just added some wondrous oil additive which is supposed to
swell oil seals and O rings slightly, stopping seepages and giving a year's
grace. I have heard of people using similar stuff on power steering systems,
and I was pleased to see that it's available for engine seals too. It's
called Wynn's Engine stop leak. It's probably just WD40 !!
I'm hoping this will slow the leak, and give me chance to wash my cambelt
with some water-washable degreaser or something. I will see how it goes.
Nothing to lose e.t.c !! It might be time to treat myself to a new one
within months. Although my car has been valued at £1000, I'm sure I could
get more than that by stripping it out and selling all the bits on ebay. The
V70 T5 wheels (Qty 5) would fetch £300 to start with! Then there's the
CD/Radio/Cassette, the leather seats, the new alternator, the new exhaust,
the new suspension struts, the spare re-con power steering rack I have in my
garage, the air conditioning components, the new bottom ball-joint, the
headlights, the turbo, the ECU, the wiper motors, the doors, the tailgate,
the quick-release towbar, are we up to £2000 yet?? !!
Cheers for now.
Joe.
Peterborough
UK.
1997 V70 TDI 250,000 miles.

"Networkguy" <04news@##nospamplease##networkguy . co . uk> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

> I found myself looking at an expensive repair bill on my 98' S70 TDi only

a
> few weeks ago and looking around, I thought it was going to cost me a lot

to
> change the car into something newer.
>
> But it sounds as if you spend a lot of money with your dealer (just like I
> did) so before you start negotiating, speak with the service manager (not
> the sales manager) and tell him you are thinking of changing. After all,
> unlike the sales person, over this sort of mileage, the service department
> have had and will continue to get a lot of money out of you over the next
> few years.
>
> As I found, when shopping around, with all other Volvo dealers, I was
> finding it had to get £2k for my car and any more than £1k off a £20k car.
>
> By going to my service manager, I was able to get £3k for mine AND £3k off
> the asking price as well plus of course, they knew EXACTLY the state of

the
> car.
>
> Of course this depends on the dealership but if they know you and want to
> keep you as a customer, the service manager can do all sorts :-)




 
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Tim \(Remove NOSPAM.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-09-2004

"Joe landy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:k6L_c.202$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi there Mr network guy.
> Thanks for your reply.
> I don't really spend much money with my main dealer, I do all
> servicing/repairs myself, and just buy genuine parts from the dealer. I

use
> them for cambelt changes and injection-pump belt changes, and of course,
> changing the offending oil seal last time round.
> I'm not sure how much buying power I have with them, but all their cars

are
> like £20K plus with 40k miles or less on them, and my budget runs to about
> £12k, and I'm not scared of high mileage. I'm looking at a new-shape V70,
> manual, with 2,5 diesel (old engine, same as my 1997) for £11k. To me,

this
> seems more like it. I have been a little put off the D5 engine by people

who
> say their intercoolers have become clogged with soot, and have needed
> replacing.


The sooted intercooler is caused by EGR which on the D5 is routed into the
airstream before the intercooler, as opposed to after it on most engines-
this is to maintain the charge temps as low as possible. A varience on the
Ford TDCi's is a separate water cooled EGR unit- but these still block up!

EGR whilst cooling the combustion and leading to less NOx production does
nothing but hamper mpg and performace and is best disabling if possible. In
some cases this requires some injinuity as some ecu's measure EGR volume by
looking for a reduction in air mass passing through the air mass meter when
it opens the egr valve, so a simple plate wont work as it will cause the MIL
lamp to light.

I assume the turbos kick out a bit of oil, and this cakes up the
> inlet manifolds,


You do get a tiny amount of seepage from the compressor, but not enough to
"gum" up the inlet tract.


Tim..


 
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Joe landy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-09-2004
Excellent information Tim, many thanks for your reply. My dealer was trying
to explain this to me, but I don't think he realised I have knowledge on
diesels.
It's crystal clear now, and I know what to beware of. Does the EGR require
regular cleaning or replacement then? I assume the intercooler would block
up very quickly if the EGR was malfunctioning.
The dealer who told me about the problem with the D5 reckoned that every
used model they'd sold had required a new intercooler. I wouldn't like to
guess their cost, but I think I'd get one from a breakers yard and try
cleaning it out if I ever needed one!!
Cheers for now.
Joe.
Joelandyman <at> postmaster.co.uk



" Tim (Remove NOSPAM." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:chi41t$8c9$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
> The sooted intercooler is caused by EGR which on the D5 is routed into the
> airstream before the intercooler, as opposed to after it on most engines-
> this is to maintain the charge temps as low as possible. A varience on the
> Ford TDCi's is a separate water cooled EGR unit- but these still block up!
>
> EGR whilst cooling the combustion and leading to less NOx production does
> nothing but hamper mpg and performace and is best disabling if possible.

In
> some cases this requires some injinuity as some ecu's measure EGR volume

by
> looking for a reduction in air mass passing through the air mass meter

when
> it opens the egr valve, so a simple plate wont work as it will cause the

MIL
> lamp to light.
>
> I assume the turbos kick out a bit of oil, and this cakes up the
> > inlet manifolds,

>
> You do get a tiny amount of seepage from the compressor, but not enough to
> "gum" up the inlet tract.
>
>
> Tim..
>
>



 
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Tim \(Remove NOSPAM.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-09-2004

"Joe landy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:qQ1%c.612$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Excellent information Tim, many thanks for your reply. My dealer was

trying
> to explain this to me, but I don't think he realised I have knowledge on
> diesels.
> It's crystal clear now, and I know what to beware of. Does the EGR require
> regular cleaning or replacement then?


In a word....Yes. - say every 15-20k miles.

Tim..


 
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Per Groth Ludvigsen
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-09-2004
Hi Joe,

You ask whether you can change the cambelt and oil seal yourself.

The cambelt is fairly easy to change on this model (remember to change the
waterpump
as well if not done at the last time you) - but you must have your diesel
pump checked
afterwards e.q. at Bosch Diesel Service to make sure that the diesel pump
still is in a
correct position (0,25mm with crankshaft on OT). Bosch has electronic
equipment to test this.

Changing the oil seal requires that you lock the camshaft with a setting bar
(2065A, it is
an Audi tool, the 2.5 TDI engine is from Audi, type is AEL - you can find
the tool on the internet
- cost not much) or use a mark on the drive gear for the injection pump when
refitting the camshaft
sprocket, tightening torque 30 Nm + 1/4 turn (90 degrees).

The bearing cap should be coated with sealing compound Silimate AMV 174 003,
maybe this
was not done correctly when the sealing was changed last time. Thighten the
cap with 20 NM
torque.

Best regards
Per





"Joe landy" <(E-Mail Removed)> skrev i en meddelelse
news:Kl3_c.486$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi all. No, not quite the full breakage, but I have a serious problem
> regarding cambelts.
> I have a 1997 Volvo V70 2.5 TDI, onto which I have just had new cambelts
> fitted (240,000 miles) along with new tensioner and idler pulleys. The car
> has been used for 30 days since having the new belts fitted, and now the
> crankshaft oil seal behind the cambelt pulley has started leaking fairly
> heavily. I had this seal replaced at 160,000 miles, at great expense.

Should
> this seal have lasted longer than this, and would the mechanics have

noticed
> a small oil leak when they did the belts? When the seal leaked before, I

had
> not noticed it, but the dealer informed me that it was leaking during a
> service, so I checked it out myself, and had it sorted about 2 weeks after
> (at the 160k cambelt interval).
> I am now feeling fairly sick at the thought of having to pay for this seal
> to be repaired, and then having to have the cambelt changed again (it's
> soaked in oil, so requires replacing completely) within the same month. I
> paid £375 for the cambelts/tensioners to be changed, and am now being

quoted
> another £725 for the complete repair job. With a 7 year old car with this
> mileage, I'm only being quoted £1000 trade-in against a £20K car.

Therefore,
> it might be worth quitting whilst I'm (slightly) ahead?? I suspect that

the
> car will need a new clutch soon (£700), and it's had tappet rattle for

some
> time, so must be getting worn. I've just done suspension, alternator,
> exhaust, air conditioning compressor and tyres, so am feeling a little

light
> in the wallet department!
> Does the group suggest that this job would be worth doing, and could I do
> the seal repair myself. I have changed cambelts on all my previous cars,

but
> am told I cannot do the belts on the V70 due to the Electronic fuel
> injection/timing requiring setting up with a computer. I am wondering if
> this is only relevant with the Injection-pump belt (separate belt which

need
> not be touched), and whether I could change the cambelt myself, and re-fit
> the belt on the correct teeth and set up the tensioner e.t.c. There is a
> small addition to the problem (apparently), in which the crankshaft pulley
> is not keyed to the shaft. It's just on a taper, so requires some careful
> work to get it set up properly.
> Anyone Volvo Techs fancy some out-of-hours work? !!
> I'm looking at 2 year old V70 D5s, or even new shape 2.5 TD (same engine

as
> mine) models, and liking them.
> The car is still pretty mint on the outside, and drives as though it has
> life left in it yet. It's got all the toys, electrically adjustable seats,
> new air conditioning gear e.t.c. If I could keep it for another year

(still
> got loads of MOT) I'd be happy.
> Your suggestions, enthusiasm or cash offers please!
> Joe Landy
> Peterborough
> UK.
>
> E-mail joelandyman <at> postmaster.co.uk to reply directly
> All Mail directed at my NTL address is deleted at the server due to excess
> spam.
>
>
>



 
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Joe landy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      13-09-2004
Excellent information Per, thanks very much.
I will save the text as a file.
I have actually decided to scrap the car, sell it as parts, and I have
bought a new shape V70 with the same 2.5 D Engine (Not D5!).
The cambelt on my new car has been changed early by a main dealer, so should
hopefully last a while before I have to get it all changed again. It'll
hopefully last 2 or maybe 3 years with my average mileage, but you can be
sure I'll have waterpump and oil seal changed at the same time.
I'm open to offers on the old car before I break it up, but I fear that with
248,000 miles on the clock, I may be struggling to get any interest!
Expect to see all manner of parts on ebay shortly! Wheels, Radio/CD,
Interior, spare steering rack (as advertised on this ng), electrics, lights,
e.t.c first.
Cheers.
Joe.
Peterborough
UK.

joelandyman<at>postmaster.co.uk


"Per Groth Ludvigsen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:4142d56f$0$299$(E-Mail Removed). ..
> Hi Joe,
>
> You ask whether you can change the cambelt and oil seal yourself.
>
> The cambelt is fairly easy to change on this model (remember to change the
> waterpump
> as well if not done at the last time you) - but you must have your diesel
> pump checked
> afterwards e.q. at Bosch Diesel Service to make sure that the diesel pump
> still is in a
> correct position (0,25mm with crankshaft on OT). Bosch has electronic
> equipment to test this.
>
> Changing the oil seal requires that you lock the camshaft with a setting

bar
> (2065A, it is
> an Audi tool, the 2.5 TDI engine is from Audi, type is AEL - you can find
> the tool on the internet
> - cost not much) or use a mark on the drive gear for the injection pump

when
> refitting the camshaft
> sprocket, tightening torque 30 Nm + 1/4 turn (90 degrees).
>
> The bearing cap should be coated with sealing compound Silimate AMV 174

003,
> maybe this
> was not done correctly when the sealing was changed last time. Thighten

the
> cap with 20 NM
> torque.
>
> Best regards
> Per
>
>
>
>
>
> "Joe landy" <(E-Mail Removed)> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:Kl3_c.486$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Hi all. No, not quite the full breakage, but I have a serious problem
> > regarding cambelts.
> > I have a 1997 Volvo V70 2.5 TDI, onto which I have just had new cambelts
> > fitted (240,000 miles) along with new tensioner and idler pulleys. The

car
> > has been used for 30 days since having the new belts fitted, and now the
> > crankshaft oil seal behind the cambelt pulley has started leaking fairly
> > heavily. I had this seal replaced at 160,000 miles, at great expense.

> Should
> > this seal have lasted longer than this, and would the mechanics have

> noticed
> > a small oil leak when they did the belts? When the seal leaked before, I

> had
> > not noticed it, but the dealer informed me that it was leaking during a
> > service, so I checked it out myself, and had it sorted about 2 weeks

after
> > (at the 160k cambelt interval).
> > I am now feeling fairly sick at the thought of having to pay for this

seal
> > to be repaired, and then having to have the cambelt changed again (it's
> > soaked in oil, so requires replacing completely) within the same month.

I
> > paid £375 for the cambelts/tensioners to be changed, and am now being

> quoted
> > another £725 for the complete repair job. With a 7 year old car with

this
> > mileage, I'm only being quoted £1000 trade-in against a £20K car.

> Therefore,
> > it might be worth quitting whilst I'm (slightly) ahead?? I suspect that

> the
> > car will need a new clutch soon (£700), and it's had tappet rattle for

> some
> > time, so must be getting worn. I've just done suspension, alternator,
> > exhaust, air conditioning compressor and tyres, so am feeling a little

> light
> > in the wallet department!
> > Does the group suggest that this job would be worth doing, and could I

do
> > the seal repair myself. I have changed cambelts on all my previous cars,

> but
> > am told I cannot do the belts on the V70 due to the Electronic fuel
> > injection/timing requiring setting up with a computer. I am wondering if
> > this is only relevant with the Injection-pump belt (separate belt which

> need
> > not be touched), and whether I could change the cambelt myself, and

re-fit
> > the belt on the correct teeth and set up the tensioner e.t.c. There is a
> > small addition to the problem (apparently), in which the crankshaft

pulley
> > is not keyed to the shaft. It's just on a taper, so requires some

careful
> > work to get it set up properly.
> > Anyone Volvo Techs fancy some out-of-hours work? !!
> > I'm looking at 2 year old V70 D5s, or even new shape 2.5 TD (same engine

> as
> > mine) models, and liking them.
> > The car is still pretty mint on the outside, and drives as though it has
> > life left in it yet. It's got all the toys, electrically adjustable

seats,
> > new air conditioning gear e.t.c. If I could keep it for another year

> (still
> > got loads of MOT) I'd be happy.
> > Your suggestions, enthusiasm or cash offers please!
> > Joe Landy
> > Peterborough
> > UK.
> >
> > E-mail joelandyman <at> postmaster.co.uk to reply directly
> > All Mail directed at my NTL address is deleted at the server due to

excess
> > spam.
> >
> >
> >

>
>



 
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