2 Questions: Tie Rod and Engine Flush

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by blurp, Mar 1, 2004.

  1. blurp

    blurp Guest

    Hi all,

    I have a specific question and a general question regarding my 83 240
    Turbo:

    1. Specific: I need to replace my RH inner tie rod (6 months ago it
    was diagnosed as "Dangerous" on an unrelated work invoice and now the
    steering's getting kind of squirrely). My question is, how hard is
    this to do? I ask because my brother-in-law just opened a shop and
    needs business and has a partner who did mechanic training but never
    saw it through to certification. Their shop is next door to an
    alignment place so they would take care of the "precision work". As I
    understand it, if you have the right parts and a hoist and tools, it's
    a pretty straight-forward mechanical job...any volvo-specific pitfalls
    I should warn them to look out for?

    2. General: My engine is sludgy. Within a few KMs of an oil change the
    oil on the dipstick is black. I saw a promotional video at Costco for
    some engine treatment called Renew in which they flush the engine with
    some hot solvent and show a resulting bucket of extracted sludge and a
    clean dipstick. My concern with this stuff is what it might do to old
    seals and gaskets and if it might open new leaks. (I was warned
    against using all-synthetic oils for this reason). Anyone know about
    this or other procedures and whether they'll improve performance at
    the cost of longevity? Anyone actually do something like this to their
    car, rather than just fuel tank additives?

    Thanks to all,
    blurp
     
    blurp, Mar 1, 2004
    #1
  2. blurp

    Sammy Guest

    Can't help you with #1, but regarding #2, remove your dino oil and use
    Mobil 1 synthetic. That will remove all the sludge. If you do, you
    should change the oil after ~ 1,000 miles, then after ~ 2,500 miles
    and then on your third oil change, everything should be back to
    normal. I change my oil twice a year. 5W30 in autumn/winter and
    10W30 in spring/summer. If your seals are pretty much finished, they
    may leak. Mines didn't, except the oil cap needed a new seal ($2).
     
    Sammy, Mar 1, 2004
    #2
  3. blurp

    Henry Guest

    I'm not so sure; this is a 21-year-old-car we're talking about--even if
    it is a Volvo.

    More likely than your 'everything should be back to normal' I think
    would be 'get ready to put in a new set of rings'.

    cheers,

    Henry
     
    Henry, Mar 1, 2004
    #3
  4. blurp

    Rod Gray Guest

    The tie rod is a straight foward job. It unscrews from the rack. If the
    outer rod is good, loosen the nut and unscrew the rod from it. Install the
    new one, don't forget the lock ring and bend the tabs over, get an alignment
    and Happy Motoring.
    Stay away from synthetics. Run Castrol 20w-50 for moderate climates or go
    to 20w-30 for severe weather.
     
    Rod Gray, Mar 2, 2004
    #4
  5. blurp

    Sammy Guest

    What is the reason for staying away from synthetic? Is it because his
    seals may/will leak?

    After using dino for 11 years in my 240, I switched to synthetic and
    everything is fine. Easier on the engine after a cold night and oil
    change only needed twice a year instead of four times a year.
     
    Sammy, Mar 2, 2004
    #5
  6. blurp

    blurp Guest

    Thanks for the advice. I pulled the tie-rod replacement procedure out
    of Haynes and it's largely as you described with a few additional
    details like the correct torqu for the bolts upon completion etc.. I
    hope they're not offended if I bring them the Haynes to help them
    along. I believe it's not too hard but they're not exactly coming off
    a run of 20 tie-rod replacements!

    Thanks again,
    blurp
     
    blurp, Mar 2, 2004
    #6
  7. blurp

    Duong Nguyen Guest

    Is 20w50/20w30 correct? I thought 240 needs much thinner oil.
     
    Duong Nguyen, Mar 3, 2004
    #7
  8. blurp

    James Sweet Guest


    They're not really picky about the viscosity, IIRC the manual specifies
    10w30 for a mild climate, 20w50 should work fine.
     
    James Sweet, Mar 3, 2004
    #8
  9. blurp

    Sammy Guest

    Here's what my owner's manual says:

    "Do not use oils with other viscosity ratings. The use of incorrect
    viscosity oil can shorten engine life.

    For winter, SAE 5W/30 for temp below -22F(-30C) and up to 68F(20C) and
    SAE 10W/30 for temp between -4F(-20C) and up to 104F(40C).

    "SAE15W/40 is recommended for use in driving conditions that raise oil
    temperature and increase oil consumption (i.e. mountain driving,
    trailer towing).

    "SAE15W40 must not be used at low ambient temperature; see viscosity
    chart

    SAE15W/40 for temp from 0F(-15C) up to greater tan 104F(40C)
     
    Sammy, Mar 3, 2004
    #9
  10. blurp

    blurp Guest

    Thanks very much, that really is terrific information. I appreciate
    all the responses and, as always, trust what I read here more than
    what I hear in a garage. Rod, thanks esp. for the detail and the
    heads up about cleaning under the valve cover...my gasket is leaking
    there and it's due to come off anyway so I'll clean what I find under
    it! I am only filling with the top octane gas I can find but that's
    usually 92 (occasionally 94 at Sunoco). I will ask the fellows to
    check the mixture on friday when the tie-rod gets replaced.

    Thanks again for your opinions!
    blurp
     
    blurp, Mar 3, 2004
    #10
  11. blurp

    blurp Guest

    Well, I see I've been using the right oil all along. Still, the car is
    old and the engine sludge is undoubtedly present. To revisit my
    original post, has anyone got experience with engine treatments
    administered by a mechanic/service shop? I know one shop I used to go
    to (South Scarborough Auto) offered some kind of "De-Carbonizer"
    treatment and I saw the Engine Renew at Costco. A Google search for
    "engine renew" turned up NO INFORMATION on the product/service which
    is a big red flag. I don't know the proper name of the other treatment
    so I can't do any other research on it.

    I just know that my oil goes black right after an oil change and it
    seems likely that my engine is full of crud. My conclusion is that it
    would benefit from the removal of said crud (I might be wrong?). Is
    there more that I can do than a straight oil-based engine flush? I am
    highly skeptical about the effectiveness of gas-tank additives.

    I wonder if that will solve the interminable DETONATING that comes
    whenever the Turbo boosts into the yellow.

    I also hope an engine swap isn't the only solution.

    Thanks again,
    blurp
     
    blurp, Mar 3, 2004
    #11
  12. blurp

    Sammy Guest

    About the Costco "treatment", I know it is not needed. When I
    switched my 93 240 from dino to synthetic, after using dino for 11
    years, the first oil was black (the one removed after the initial
    1,000miles. Even the second oil, after 2,500 miles, was still kind of
    dark. Only the next oil change (it happened after 3,000 miles in my
    case but you can easily go up to 5,000++ miles) was the oil kind of
    normal color. All the oil changes following that were normal.

    Since synthetic is strong in detergent, I know it should remove all
    your sludge. The problem is that the same sludge might be the only
    thing preventing you from having leaking seals. If it is removed, be
    it by Costco or by synthetic oil, you could end up with an expensive
    maintenance bill. And there won't be any going back possible.

    The choice is yours. IMO, Costco treatment isn't necessary, synthetic
    oil will do the job. But you might regret it deeply if a major seal
    ends up leaking.

    I was hesitating before switching, but because synthetic is more fluid
    than dino in low temp (easier on the engine in cold start), and
    because I would need only two oil changes a year instead of four, I
    decided to take my chance. No regret.

    Your mileage may vary.
     
    Sammy, Mar 3, 2004
    #12
  13. blurp

    James Sweet Guest


    If yours is detonating something is very wrong, you are running at least mid
    grade fuel I presume? Cheap stuff will ping, also the mixture could be off
    or there may be a ton of carbon buildup on the pistons and head, detonation
    will destroy the engine quickly.
     
    James Sweet, Mar 3, 2004
    #13
  14. blurp

    Rod Gray Guest

    Ok guys. Here's the real skinny. In the 80's there was a court case against
    Castrol because their synthetic turned to crap in a Corvette and caused the
    engine to seize up.Synthetic is not compatible with regular oil.
    Sammy is correct in saying that it can be done, but dont't go to your're
    typical $19.95 oil change place where the guy looks like he just stepped
    out of the Deliverance movie {Burt Reynolds for you younger fellows) and
    expect him to do it correctly. The engine MUST be at operating temp (did
    they let it set there for 2 hours befofe they did it). Then let it drain for
    30 minutes before capping the drain plug (use a new brass washer, not
    plastic), and espically if you have a turbo, pull the coil wire and crank
    the engine over until you have good oil pressure. Fill the filter before
    installing it, make sure the O-ring from the old filter doesn't stick to the
    filter houing which will surely cause a leak, oil the O-ring on the new
    filter, and only tighten it hand tight. DO NOT use a filter wrench on it.
    On the viscosity issue, at the dealership in Florida where I worked, we used
    20/w50 year round. I used the same in Atlanta where it would be 0 to 10
    above for days at a time. In New Hampshire I still ran the same, but used a
    dip stick heater so the engine would start. Once the engine is running, it
    will sitll reach the same operating temp and if you have a thinner oil just
    so it will start, it is to thin.
    On the turbo detination problem, the turbos have a lower compression ratio
    than the normally aspirated engines. Carbon build up will cause detionation.
    Exxon gas has Tychron in it, which will help clean the corbon build up on
    the cylinder heads. Fill the tank with 93 octane Exxon, add a can of Tychron
    and see if the problem doesn't go away. Then every forth or fitih tank, do
    the 93 octain again.
    About the oil getting dirty quickly, cheap oil hardens on the head. It will
    cause a build up that you can chip away. That,s why the oil gets dirty right
    after you change it. Remove the valve cover which is an easy job on a B21,
    B23,B230, or a B230F. Just clean all the junk out that has accumlatted.Run
    the car a thousand miles then change the oil again. Some of that build up
    will go down the oil passages and contaminate the oil again.
    BTW, I noticed that my e-mail address was incorrect. If anyone tried to
    reach me and I didn't reply, my apoligies. I have changed it.
     
    Rod Gray, Mar 4, 2004
    #14
  15. Try using decent fuel shell optimax bp ultimate or mobil 8000 and see if its
    better .If you have turned up the turbo if may detonate as well a visit to
    a decent Volvo guy might help and save your engine .
     
    John Robertson, Apr 3, 2004
    #15
  16. blurp

    blurp Guest

    Thanks for the detonation advice. I think the whole thing traces back
    to a slight error in the timing when the new timing belt was
    installed. It was detonating right after that and I had someone else
    look at it and make a timing adjustment a couple of months later (once
    it was determined that it was detonating) that solved the problem for
    about 3 weeks then the detonating came back.

    I have only ever run the car with Shell Optimax (or better) and have
    found that fresh oil + 0.5L of Lucas oil stabilizer almost completely
    eliminates the detonating. I figure the engine is now toast (or at
    least the rings are shot).

    Any other suggestions of what I might look at?

    Thanks,
    blurp
    ps. the tie-rod job was smooth and trouble-free once they got the
    part. I have to say, a garage that's open on Saturdays (as Pipes is)
    is a godsend for working folks! They're thinking of opening on Sundays
    too!
     
    blurp, Apr 5, 2004
    #16
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