2001 Volvo S60 2.4T Issues

Discussion in 'Volvo S60' started by Tim Summers, Aug 4, 2005.

  1. Tim Summers

    Tim Summers Guest

    I have several issues with my 2001 S60 2.4T. Some are minor annoyances to
    which I have learned to adapt my driving; others are to be expected,
    although perhaps not in the ways manifested; and a couple issues have
    surfaced recently that have me concerned. I would appreciate comments or
    suggestions related to any or all of these issues:

    1. Front tires rub the wheel wells near maximum turning radius. I bought
    the 17" wheel package that included wider tires, so I suspect that the car
    isn't quite engineered for this option or that wide of a tire -- or is this
    an issue with all of the tire options? I've adapted by anticipating a wider
    turning radius as I maneuver the vehicle to avoid rubbing.

    2. Car "slams" into gear if accelerating too soon coming out of a turn. It
    doesn't happen every time, but I think I've identified several factors,
    including temperature, duration of braking prior to the turn, and speed.
    The symptom is that if I brake before a turn, ease up on the brake entering
    the turn, then jump immediately to the accelerator, the car will sometimes
    thud and shudder as it engages the appropriate gear. My understanding from
    the manual is that to prolong clutch life, the car is taken out of gear when
    braking (not sure what parameters are around this), so I have imagined that
    too rapid of a transition from brake to accelerator under certain
    circumstances is what is causing the car to slam into gear. I have found
    that if I essentially roll through the turn, giving the car a second or two
    between brake and accelerator, I do not encounter this issue. This has also
    occurred several times when in creeping traffic, where I might be using
    variable pressure on the brake pedal as I inch forward slowly. Does this
    make sense, or have I created an elaborate fiction to explain away a defect?

    3. Intermittent position light failure. This vehicle seems to be especially
    hard on its bulbs. I imagined the intermittent nature of this problem was
    due to a broken filament that managed to somehow reconnect, perhaps through
    vibration, and becoming temporarily fused to complete the circuit. I had
    one bulb that routinely would fail and heal itself, until it finally did
    expire. The dealer replaced all of the bulbs. Perhaps two or three months
    later, I had another couple failure/self-healing cycles -- and haven't had a
    problem since!

    4. Door locks do not always engage. This has been an intermittent problem
    with only the rear passenger side door. I first believed that maybe the
    electronic motor failed, but after manually lifting and depressing the lock
    plunger, it began again to respond to the key fob and cabin button. It has
    stopped working on several other occasions, but manipulating the plunger a
    few times will resume operation. I imagined it might be a lubrication
    issue, but the plunger seems to move freely without binding.

    5. Cruise Control intermittently disengages when set. I have become quite
    adept at turning on the cruise control and setting the speed in one fluid
    motion. One day, I set the cruise and the car began to slow down. I looked
    and saw that the cruise control was not on. Furthermore, it could not be
    turned on -- it was completely non-responsive. My first assumption was that
    the cruise control assembly on the steering wheel had simply failed.
    However, after turning the car off and restarting it, the cruise control was
    active again. Since then, this failure occurs about 20 - 30% of the time,
    but I have not been able to notice any patterns. It does, however, seem to
    happen with less frequency if I wait 3-4 second after turning the cruise
    control before setting it. What happens is that the cruise control
    indicator will illuminate when cruise control is turned on; however, as soon
    as I set the cruise speed, the indicator goes off and this sub-system is
    dead, until resetting by turning the car off. I had it in to the dealer for
    this problem, and they indicated that the computer did not log any events
    when this happens.

    6. Engine System Service Required indicator; rough idle; stall on restart.
    As described here, this problem appears to be directly related to the cruise
    control issue noted above, as the timing was spot on with attempting to set
    the cruise control. The situation occurred today and began as noted above:
    I turned on the cruise and set it. However, for the first time, just as the
    cruise control disengaged and failed, I immediately got the message Engine
    System Service Required. I was on the interstate at the time, and noted no
    problems with the performance of the vehicle. Engine temperature was
    nominal and no other indicators suggested problems involving oil pressure,
    voltage, etc. No problems were detected until I left the interstate and
    came to about my 4th stop on secondary roads. At that point, the engine
    started to idle very roughly and I feared it would stall. Disengaging the
    A/C allowed the idle to stabilize and I continued on to my final
    destination. When I arrived and turned off the car, I full well expected
    the problem to disappear as readily as the cruise control issue has after
    being reset. However, it did not. The car starts with the Engine System
    Service Required, it idles rough, and even with the A/C disengaged, the
    engine stalls at idle.
     
    Tim Summers, Aug 4, 2005
    #1
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  2. Tim Summers

    Mike F Guest

    1. This is fairly normal on a lot of cars as car makers try to jam the
    biggest tires (for style) into the smallest wheel wells (for interior
    room). Even my 98s with only 205/55R16s have this problem. The rubbing
    is minor, so I don't worry about it.

    2. There is probably a software download for this problem.

    3. Volvos are notorious for this problems. The bulb failure relays
    have shunts that the computer uses to measure current into the bulbs.
    These can cause problems in addition to the bulbs.

    4. The P2 platform Volvos (S80, new style V70, S60) very commonly have
    this problem. Replacing the offending door lock is the cure.

    5&6. Symptoms of a failing electronic throttle module. When the
    computer detects a problem with the throttle module, then the cruise is
    disabled (since it uses the throttle module). This is very common on
    all 1999-2001 Volvos.
    http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050801/volvo_investigation.html?.v=2

    --
    Mike F.
    Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

    Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
    (But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
     
    Mike F, Aug 5, 2005
    #2
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  3. Tim Summers

    Kytis Guest

    First of all, may I say that you are definitely NOT alone. We have had
    very similar and painful experiences with our 2001 V70 2,4T. Most of the
    issues have been sorted, and may I add with a great deal of negotiating
    with several instances in Volvo organisation.

    Some of the issues are still being disputed and I will not go into the
    details at this point, since I'm expecting still some compensation...
    No idea.
    Again, this one didn't concern us.
    Had to replace a few, but we wouldn't call this a problem. Not yet :)
    Like I have written here earlier, we had a software bug, which caused
    all kinds of malfunctions at the rear end of the car. Doors being a real
    pain in the ass. Ever since the software update, everything has been
    100% ok.
    Had this one VERY recently. Cruise control disengages, because it is
    programmed to do so, when there is another severe problem in your car.
    It's a safety measure. In our car, we had to replace (sorry, but English
    is not my mother tongue and thus I'm not 100% sure of all the technical
    vocabulary) "what used to be a carburretor". I guess it translates
    something like a "valvebox" or something like that. Cost around 660
    euros in Finland.

    FURTHERMORE, we had to replave an airmass detector (350 euros), since it
    was giving weird feedback to the computer, thus engine running was far
    from being optimal. We calculated that the car had consumed well over
    1000 liters more fuel during its 4 years or only 45000 kms. Think about
    that. After replacing both of these components, the consumption went
    down almost 2 liters per 100 kms. If you use gallons, miles etc. please
    calculate these by yourself.

    Goes without saying that this was very expensive service we had about
    two weeks ago. The process is still up in the air and we are still
    waiting for compensation from Volvo, since these kinds of components
    should last longer. At least that's our view.
    We had similar experiences while doing "the Ultimate Midsummer Tour in
    Southern Germany" this summer. All I can say now, is that this had to do
    with faulty airmass detector or "valvebox".

    On top of everything else, we also experinced a broken gearbox!!!!
    Believe it or not, but it had to be replaced just after mentioned 45000
    kms. First the oil inside the box burned completely, but the pro staff
    in Volvo Finland was able to give some first aid by washing it by oil.
    It's bloody expensive and after 12 liters the bill was over 240 euros
    only for the oil!

    700 kms later the whole box just let go, and it obviously had to be
    replaced. Here's the good part: Volvo paid the box (3400 euros) and we
    paid the labour and enother set of oil - 598 euros. If it wasn't a known
    problem, I would very much doubt that they would have compensated it
    fully. I also do not believe in shouting and pointing firngers, but a
    constructive negotiation, so I guess my tactics worked here ;)

    As you can see, there were all kinds of problems. Three major ones at
    the same time, and luckily they are all sorted out now. Thanks for the
    super nice and great staff at Volvo Finland, who worked overtime to fix
    our car. By the way, according to them, our car was "in extremely bad
    condition" when it arrived at their garage first time. That's pretty
    honest and I do appreciate their comments.

    All in all, I would advice you to take your car into an authorized Volvo
    dealer and tell them to get to the bottom of your problems. I bet 100
    bucks that you have two similar components replaced in your car.

    First they may say that there's nothing wrong. Happened to us, too,
    since the garage's computer didn't indicate ANY FAULTS what so ever,
    when connected. Luckily there was this head of all gurus, who knew how
    to use brains and he found all the faults.

    Good luck and please give us posted, what happened to you. I'm dying to
    learn more about these V70s/S60s etc. and ESPECIALLY yearmodels 2001!!
     
    Kytis, Aug 7, 2005
    #3
  4. Tim Summers

    Glenn Klein Guest

    1:) There is a limiter kit that can be installed to correct the rubbing
    2:) Software upgrades for the ECM & TCM
    3:) Normal bulbs going out
    4:) The door lock is @ fault & need to be replaced
    5:) most likely due to your next complaint the pedal position sensor is
    @ fault codes ECM 9400 & BCM 0103
    6:) There are codes stored in many of your cars control units that will
    determine the exact cause of your complaint
    7:) If your car is still under warranty return to your local Volvo
    dealer & have them find out what is going on

    --
    "*-344-*Never Forgotten"
    Is for the New York City Firemen who lost their lives on September 11,2001.
    The official count is 343, but there was also a volunteer who lost his life
    aiding in the initial rescue efforts. And I will never forget them as
    long as I live,
    nor should any American.
     
    Glenn Klein, Aug 7, 2005
    #4
  5. Tim Summers

    Hal Whelply Guest

    :

    "...(sorry, but English is not my mother tongue and thus I'm not 100% sure
    of all the technical vocabulary)..."


    I would never have guessed that you weren't a native English speaker. Most
    people in the US can't write that well.

    I think the term you were trying to recall is "throttle body." Or maybe
    "throttle control module."

    We've had problems with our '01 S60 2.4T, most of which were dealt with
    under warranty. I have to admit the list in this thread seems somewhat worse
    than ours. The continuing question: Why should owners of a car as expensive
    as the S60/V70 have so many problems that buyers of much less expensive (but
    nearly as complex) Hondas and Toyotas do not experience? Why can't Volvo
    "get their act together"?

    Let's hope all the fixes we've had to pay for so far have taken care of the
    major problems and we have many trouble-free miles ahead!
     
    Hal Whelply, Aug 7, 2005
    #5
  6. Tim Summers

    Kytis Guest

    Believe it or not, but there were absolutely no codes stored in our car,
    when the computer clearly indicated "transmission, service immediately".
    Luckily this guru of gurus used his head and found what was wrong.

    A man should not always trust simply on computers... :eek:)
    And if not, good luck. Apparently there are quite a few teething
    problems in 2001 V70s, but it's a completely different ball game to have
    Volvo confess them. Of course, if there are too many complaints, they
    will do a recall on certain components, as they did with the engine fan.
    Which by the way failed us, as well!
     
    Kytis, Aug 8, 2005
    #6
  7. Tim Summers

    Kytis Guest

    Thanks for your kinds words :eek:)
    After re-checking the invoice, the component I so desperately tried to
    translate is in deed ETM, Electronic Throttle Module.
    That really is an important question, and we have been using this
    sentence in our negotiations with Volvo. I would understand all the
    failures and malfunctions if we bought a Lada or some other piece of
    s**t, but not when we invest 50000 euros in a brand new V70 2,4T.
    And then comes the new improved version or the next generation of cars
    with their own set of problems. And we end-users are once again the
    ones, who have to find all these teething problems in a hard way.
    Unfortunately this seems to be the trend of modern era, but let's keep
    in mind, that all brands have their own similar hiccups.

    Opel comes first in my mind with their camshaft belt replacement every
    30,000 kms. Initially it was supposed to last 60,000 kms (which is not
    much, when you compare the competitors) and then after they started to
    break in masses, the recommendation was to change it every 30,000 km.
    Guess if customers got pissed off and Opel lost the court case. At least
    this happened in Finland. Don't know if people in other countries pushed
    the dealer this far...
     
    Kytis, Aug 8, 2005
    #7
  8. Tim Summers

    wpegden Guest

    Since there is currently an investigation by the NHTSA into volvo's
    problems with the electronic throttle module (which coiuld potentially
    result in a recall), everybody with these problems should make sure to
    report them to the NHTSA, either by using the form at
    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/, or by calling 1-888-DASH-2-DOT
    (1-888-327-4236).

    Good luck,
    Wes
     
    wpegden, Aug 8, 2005
    #8
  9. Tim Summers

    Kytis Guest

    Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    I just emailed a long and detailed reclamation report to my dealer and
    after reading your post, I added that info as well. Let's see what the
    ourcome will be.

    Cheers mate!
     
    Kytis, Aug 8, 2005
    #9
  10. Tim Summers

    Hal Whelply Guest

    Respectfully, I have to disagree. In my personal experience, taking into
    account the last eight (8) cars I've had, the Japanese brands are much more
    reliable. While not perfect, Japanese brands generally do NOT "have their
    own similar hiccups." I believe consumer data (e.g., Consumer Reports
    magazine here, as well as the J. D. Powers Initial Quality Survey, and
    others) will confirm this. We have never had such a troublesome car as this
    S60.

    Now, yes, I know the complaint that Japanesse cars have no "soul" (whatever
    that really means). While it's no Porsche or Jaguar, my current enthusiasm
    (I rarely drive the Volvo, my wife's car) is my '04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT.
    Almost 30,000 absolutely trouble-free miles, over nearly two years. And with
    210 HP (word on the street is that it's more like 230 on a dyno), it really
    goes, handles very well for a small SUV, rides decently, and has "5 stars"
    for both front and side impacts. Why can't I buy a Volvo like that?! True,
    the V50 is very close in mechanical specs. Now, if they just solve the
    reliability issues...

    HW
     
    Hal Whelply, Aug 9, 2005
    #10
  11. Tim Summers

    deedoctor Guest

    I like Volvos and my wife won't buy any other vehicle PS She was secretly
    pleased when somebody ran a red light and totalled my Durango last year -
    although it got tipped on its side none one in the vehicle got even a
    twinge - the power of seatbelts.

    Anyway back to the point I must agree with previous comments that for the
    price paid Volvo needs to improve its act.

    We have had 3 Volvos all bought NEW (1998 960, 2001 S60 and 2004 S80). I
    found all 3 have been unusually excessive with bulb failures,and in the
    case of the 960 a hopelessly inadequate A/C system and relay problems.

    For reference over 40 years I have owned numerous makes of cars including
    MB 300CE and 560S, BMW 318 and 535, Jaguar XJ6, Jeep Cherokee, Mazda
    RX7RSL, Ford E350 14Pax Vans, Durango, Accord, Chevy Camaro and Monte
    Carlo, Simcas, Fiats and 4 Litre R VDPlas. Plus I worked on many different
    cars helping my Dad in his car service business back in England (mainly
    Simcas, Fiats and Jaguars).

    None of these cars had the bulb failure problem, even the LUCAS equipped
    Jag !!

    Good luck to those of you trying to deal with Volvo's holier than thou
    attitude about their vehicle reliability.
     
    deedoctor, Aug 12, 2005
    #11
  12. Tim Summers

    wpegden Guest

    Good luck... my girlfriend (who has the volvo with problematic ETS) is
    working on a website regarding this problem. Hopefully it will be up
    soon. There's also a mailing list: "Volvo VEXED" dedicated to just
    this problem (VEXED=Volvo Enthusiasts eXposing Egregius Design).

    Good luck again,
    Wes
     
    wpegden, Aug 12, 2005
    #12
  13. Wes...

    Is her name Marina??...

    ---------snip---------------------------
    Subject: VEXED August 12 Update
    Good morning VEXED Group,
    Welcome to the dozen or so new members. I'll try to bring you up to
    date. First, because of the August 1 release to the Associated Press,
    the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has been
    inundated with complaints. When I first contacted them I found about
    100 complaints. Many were listed a cruise control, electrical failure
    or other, but reading the description of the failure you could see that
    it was the ETM. Complaint count is now past 300 and NHTSA is calling
    back within a day or so. One call back was to a dealer, who reported
    that his conversation opened some eyes. It was interesting of all the
    people that saw the AP release and where: USA Today, Detroit Free
    Press, Denver Post, CBS television and others.



    NHTSA was already aware of the problem after my Congresswoman's office
    sent them a package of my reports, copies of selected forum posts and a
    cover letter telling them to look into this failure. About two weeks
    later NHTSA called me. Later they asked for an ETM from me and one from
    another VEXED member. I also found that 'NHTSA Man' had been monitoring
    the VolvoXC forum. They have asked VOLVO for internal documents that
    concern the number of failures, when VOLVO knew of the problem and
    similar embarrassing questions. VOLVO is required to furnish this
    information to them. NHTSA is now considering stalling and reduced
    power (limp-home) a real safety problem. A decision should be
    forthcoming in about 5-7 weeks.



    I had wanted a web page but, though I had done a couple, I did not
    think I was up to this task. Maria, of Princeton, offered to do the
    work if I/we would forward text to her. I sent her 12 reports and pages
    last Saturday (August 4) and she is getting them up where we can check
    them. I have selected a few to help until we get it proofed and off of
    her personal web space. I also registered a domain name that I will
    release in a few days.



    For the new members I have asked for financial help of $10 per VEXED
    member. This is to let me buy a new ETM, part number 8644347. This is
    the unit that is now being installed. Since they have not begun to fail
    we do not have a 'body' to autopsy. One of the group has offered to get
    it for me for $400.00. Any remaining balance will be used to recoup my
    mileage to Denver, postage, printing and other trivial expenses. So
    far I have received just over $100. I am pretty much at a standstill
    until the $$ start rolling in.



    I am getting 1-2 e-mails a day of persons wanting to be put on the
    mailing list.



    I talked to Tony Kovaleski, at The DenverChannel, Tuesday (August 9) he
    said the segment should run in 10 days. It will say, "See more on
    "http://TheDenverChannel.com" which may include the FAQs and will link
    to the VEXED web site.



    Don Willson

    950 Southridge Greens

    Unit 21

    Fort Collins, Colorado 80525
     
    ~^ beancounter ~^, Aug 13, 2005
    #13
  14. Tim Summers

    wpegden Guest

    aha... yes indeed... her name is maria.

    Thanks for all the work,
    Wes
     
    wpegden, Aug 13, 2005
    #14
  15. Tim Summers

    Tim Summers Guest

    Updated Status in re: Items 5 & 6

    I made an appointment with my Volvo dealer, although I had serious doubts
    whether the car was capable of being driven that distance without requiring
    a tow. I had tried to restart the car a couple times and the rough idle and
    service message persisted. However, the morning of my trek to the
    dealership, the car started without any noticable problem, except for some
    hesitation the first few uses of the accelerator. I made it to the
    dealership without further incident or service warnings.

    From the historical codes, an ETM problem was confirmed: ECM 130A and ECM
    91CF for intake leak and throttle unit failure (per invoice).

    If not for the 5 year / 75K mile extended warranty I had purchased from
    Toyota (it was less expensive and provided more coverage that Volvo's
    extended warranty program), the total repair costs would have been close to
    $1200 USD, which included a mass air flow sensor, throttle body, ETM reload,
    gasket, and 1 day's car rental. With the extended warranty, my out of
    pocket expenses was about $20 in gasoline, and about 8 hours of my time.

    Needless to say, the car is running beautifully since this service was
    performed....

    I appreciate the feedback and the insight gained from it, and will continue
    to monitor this ETM issue with great interest.
     
    Tim Summers, Aug 15, 2005
    #15
  16. Tim Summers

    Kytis Guest

    Did I tell you, or did I tell you ;)
    Wise man you are. I bet you gave yourself a BIG slap on the back.
    Definitely sounds like the procedure we had to go through this summer,
    since we had to change that mass air flow sensor as well with the ETM.
    Luckily you didn't have to install a new gerbox. Although, we can now
    relax with the issue, since this new gearbox should be the updated,
    highly improved version...
    Did you notice any positive change regarding the gas mileage? We had a
    significant improvement with ours - around 2 liters less per 100 kms.
    Same here :eek:) Have a fantastic week!
     
    Kytis, Aug 15, 2005
    #16
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