265 wouldn't start

[jg]

3 RAC men couldn't start it, but with the help of a battery guy and various
Volvo forums isolated it to the fuel pump relay. Apparently they usually
last about 7 years but this one had done better than that because my part
number was superseded 10 years ago. They are used in later models but don't
know how much later.
I only bought the (24 years old) car recently but already prepared to donate
a kidney to save it, wouldn't start all over Christmas & no parts places
open. What an introduction to Volvos. But hey, that's a problemette compared
to 50-odd thousand dead and their families caught in the Tsunami.

 

[James Sweet]

3 RAC men couldn't start it, but with the help of a battery guy and various
Volvo forums isolated it to the fuel pump relay. Apparently they usually
last about 7 years but this one had done better than that because my part
number was superseded 10 years ago. They are used in later models but don't
know how much later.
I only bought the (24 years old) car recently but already prepared to donate
a kidney to save it, wouldn't start all over Christmas & no parts places
open. What an introduction to Volvos. But hey, that's a problemette compared
to 50-odd thousand dead and their families caught in the Tsunami.

Bosch relays seem to not have the best quality soldering in the world, I
usually resolder all the critical ones whether the car is working or not,
never had one fail again.

 

[jg]

Bosch relays seem to not have the best quality soldering in the world, I
usually resolder all the critical ones whether the car is working or not,
never had one fail again.

This one had been done before and I had another go, but I think there was
more wrong than that - there was a bit of beige goo around one of the
components (to mask my lack of IC knowledge). I drilled a couple of small
holes in the new casing, following one tip I saw.

 

[James Sweet]

This one had been done before and I had another go, but I think there was
more wrong than that - there was a bit of beige goo around one of the
components (to mask my lack of IC knowledge). I drilled a couple of small
holes in the new casing, following one tip I saw.

The goo is rosin flux from the solder, it won't hurt anything. Helps to
remove the old solder from the heavy joints and use all new stuff. Also a
dying fuel pump can oveheat the relay and stress the solder joints.

 

[jg]

The goo is rosin flux from the solder, it won't hurt anything. Helps to
remove the old solder from the heavy joints and use all new stuff. Also a
dying fuel pump can oveheat the relay and stress the solder joints.

Nah this is on the component side of the board, same colour as one of those
plastic blobs with stripes, like it had burst. It's not flux and looks like
no soldering had been done on any of the "small" joints, only the higher
current/load parts. Do you do the all the joints or just those likely to
have more stress?

 

[James Sweet]

Nah this is on the component side of the board, same colour as one of those
plastic blobs with stripes, like it had burst. It's not flux and looks like
no soldering had been done on any of the "small" joints, only the higher
current/load parts. Do you do the all the joints or just those likely to
have more stress?

White blobs? You mean the resistors? They don't have any goo in them.
Electrolytic capacitors (cylindrical things with two leads and a voltage and
uF rating on them) are filled with liquid electrolyte that can leak if they
fail. Also sometimes parts are glued down with hot melt glue or caulking
like stuff.

I resolder anything that looks dull or cracked, as well as all the heavy
current carrying joints.

 

[jg]

Also

White blobs? You mean the resistors? They don't have any goo in them.
Electrolytic capacitors (cylindrical things with two leads and a voltage and
uF rating on them) are filled with liquid electrolyte that can leak if they
fail. Also sometimes parts are glued down with hot melt glue or caulking
like stuff.

I resolder anything that looks dull or cracked, as well as all the heavy
current carrying joints.

Well I tried... then bought a new one and it works. Now I just have to work
out why the tank pump still isn't working.

 

[James Sweet]

Well I tried... then bought a new one and it works. Now I just have to work
out why the tank pump still isn't working.

The in-tank pumps fail more often than the main pump, pull it out, rinse it
well with soapy water, then hook it up to a 6v battery and see if it runs.

 

[jg]

The in-tank pumps fail more often than the main pump, pull it out, rinse it
well with soapy water, then hook it up to a 6v battery and see if it runs.

(thanks for taking the time to reply) isn't it 12v? I had tried to get it
out but one fuel line is shrunk on & worried how hard it might be to put
back if I cut it. But the pair of wires to it both have continuity to earth
(and with each other of course) - that can't be right? I'll take the fuse
out & see if it still happens, not stupid just a bit slow on the uptake...

 

[Michael Pardee]

(thanks for taking the time to reply) isn't it 12v? I had tried to get it
out but one fuel line is shrunk on & worried how hard it might be to put
back if I cut it. But the pair of wires to it both have continuity to
earth
(and with each other of course) - that can't be right? I'll take the fuse
out & see if it still happens, not stupid just a bit slow on the uptake...

Motors typically measure very little resistance, with the stall current
being very high but running current being low. The motor is 12V but should
run just fine on 6V for a test.

Also, there is a separate part of the fuel pump relay for the in-tank pump.
You should have voltage to the in-tank pump whenever the ignition is on.
Since the relay is a notorious trouble spot, be sure it is okay before going
on the great tank expedition.

Another common problem is tearing of the bellows-like line between the
outlet of the in-tank fuel pump and the fuel pipe. The hose is not available
separately (the last price I got for the assembly was over $300 US) and I
did what most people do - replace it with a piece of fuel hose. That doesn't
allow the pickup to rest on the bottom of the tank, but at least it makes
the fuel feed right.

Mike

 

[Michael Pardee]

Also, there is a separate part of the fuel pump relay for the in-tank
pump. You should have voltage to the in-tank pump whenever the ignition is
on. Since the relay is a notorious trouble spot, be sure it is okay before
going on the great tank expedition.

Oops - I forgot you replaced the relay!

Mike

 

[jg]

Oops - I forgot you replaced the relay!

Hey I'm not going to be picky when someone is trying to help. But still not
ready to suspect the tank pump when the power to it doesn't seem to work the
way I think it should.

 

[James Sweet]

(thanks for taking the time to reply) isn't it 12v? I had tried to get it
out but one fuel line is shrunk on & worried how hard it might be to put
back if I cut it. But the pair of wires to it both have continuity to earth
(and with each other of course) - that can't be right? I'll take the fuse
out & see if it still happens, not stupid just a bit slow on the uptake...

Yes it's 12v, but 6v lantern batteries are common and it should run on one,
you can also use a battery pack from a cordless drill, camcorder, etc. The
voltage isn't really critical, you just want to verify the pump is ok. You
can also measure voltage right at the tank, if you have close to 12v there
but the pump isn't running then 99% chance it's bad. You don't wanna remove
the fuel line there, it's permanently attached. Get down under the car and
you'll find a union in the line which you can disconnect with a wrench.

 

[James Sweet]

ignition
Hey I'm not going to be picky when someone is trying to help. But still not
ready to suspect the tank pump when the power to it doesn't seem to work the
way I think it should.

What do you mean? Does it get voltage when the engine is cranking or not?

 

[jg]

What do you mean? Does it get voltage when the engine is cranking or not?

It gets voltage ok, but there is continuity between each wire and earth with
the key off which seems like a short to me. I just disconnected the plug
near the pump & ran 2 wires from the battery and guess what... because the
tank pump made such a noise before all the relay trouble I assumed it wasn't
working because it runs so much quieter now, but it runs after all. Thanks
guys you haven't really wasted your time, I was even too stupid to try that
until prompted. I've always had a blind spot for electricery (specially
since I got my hand caught behind the stove dashboard), really a mechanical
man but I get the feeling the wiring is a weak spot with these cars.

 

[James Sweet]

It gets voltage ok, but there is continuity between each wire and earth with
the key off which seems like a short to me. I just disconnected the plug
near the pump & ran 2 wires from the battery and guess what... because the
tank pump made such a noise before all the relay trouble I assumed it wasn't
working because it runs so much quieter now, but it runs after all. Thanks
guys you haven't really wasted your time, I was even too stupid to try that
until prompted. I've always had a blind spot for electricery (specially
since I got my hand caught behind the stove dashboard), really a mechanical
man but I get the feeling the wiring is a weak spot with these cars.

If it has something around 12v then the electrical side is fine, continuity
is normal, as someone else said, the DC impedance of motors is generally
very low, only a few ohms.

 

[Robert Dietz]

(thanks for taking the time to reply) isn't it 12v? I had tried to get it
out but one fuel line is shrunk on & worried how hard it might be to put
back if I cut it. But the pair of wires to it both have continuity to earth
(and with each other of course) - that can't be right? I'll take the fuse
out & see if it still happens, not stupid just a bit slow on the uptake...

The hard plastic hose is only about 18" long until it connects to the
hard line running to the main fuel pump. Generally the fitting will not
separate at this time. The answer is to slit the plastic pipe and remove
it from both ends. Replace it with 5/16" (8mm) fuel hose and two clamps.

Bob

 

[jg]

The hard plastic hose is only about 18" long until it connects to the
hard line running to the main fuel pump. Generally the fitting will not
separate at this time. The answer is to slit the plastic pipe and remove
it from both ends. Replace it with 5/16" (8mm) fuel hose and two clamps.

It must slip over about 1" of metal at each end, I was worried I might have
damaged the line trying to lever off the rubber casing (so robust it looked
like it was the hose and the line inside was the spigot), but can't smell
fuel or see a leak and it runs ok so I will hope. That's a good tip, fairly
obvious like many tips but might not have thought of it. Hard to reach the
other end, I've hurt my arm just reaching up to the hose on the pump around
the tank from under (for a better angle to pull it).

 

[Robert Dietz]

<snip>

There's a plate in the trunk, secured by four phillips head screws, that
allows access to the top of the tank.

Bob

 

[jg]

<snip>

There's a plate in the trunk, secured by four phillips head screws, that
allows access to the top of the tank.

Yes I found that and got the pump as far as half way out but couldn't get
that one pipe off. Oh well it seems OK now so maybe I'll never have that
challenge again. The car is 25 years old so you have to wonder how much life
there is - it certainly seems in much better condition than the crappy old
ford Falcon 7 years younger which passed its use by date a few weeks ago.