940 stalling after reving

[Tony]

This is a 96 940 2.3 Turbo Estate, owned by a family member and has just
had the Turbo replaced by a somewhat poor mechanic (there were a few
bolts not done up, gaskets missing etc). During the work something
seems to have been broken/disconnected/disturbed.

If you rev the engine then let it go back to idle it stalls, this happen
alot when slowing down quickly at lights, just as you change down from
3rd to 2nd and you have to bump start it in second (not good for the cat
I know). It seems slow to react to the throttle change, if you just rev
it a little it drops but then recovers.

It ticks over fine and colds starts ok.

I have just overhauled the head and cooling system (for overheating due
to corrossion/no anitfreeze etc), and its still the same. I can't see
any obvious missing plugs.

Any suggestions?

 

[Mike F]

This is a 96 940 2.3 Turbo Estate, owned by a family member and has just
had the Turbo replaced by a somewhat poor mechanic (there were a few
bolts not done up, gaskets missing etc). During the work something
seems to have been broken/disconnected/disturbed.

If you rev the engine then let it go back to idle it stalls, this happen
alot when slowing down quickly at lights, just as you change down from
3rd to 2nd and you have to bump start it in second (not good for the cat
I know). It seems slow to react to the throttle change, if you just rev
it a little it drops but then recovers.

It ticks over fine and colds starts ok.

I have just overhauled the head and cooling system (for overheating due
to corrossion/no anitfreeze etc), and its still the same. I can't see
any obvious missing plugs.

Any suggestions?

Assuming no vacuum leaks, the next most common cause of this is base
idle too low. Clean the throttle body, and set it up properly.

--
Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)

 

[~^ beancounter ~^]

yea, I would agree with Mike...check the vac hoses for
proper hookup and leaks.....there are a lot of them on the
940...you may hear a leak, as it will "wooosh" when you tweek
the throttle with the hood open.....

 

[Tony]

yea, I would agree with Mike...check the vac hoses for
proper hookup and leaks.....there are a lot of them on the
940...you may hear a leak, as it will "wooosh" when you tweek
the throttle with the hood open.....

I've had another go at it today, cleaned up the thottle body but didn't
have time to completely clean it, also cleaned the idle air valve but it
works fine and wasn't very dirty. Checked all the hoses as best I
could. After cleaning and new gasket the tickover was high, caused by a
slightly incorrect of accelerator linkage bar, popping it off restored
the tickover (maybe it was just the position I put it on in, only needed
one turn or so to correct). Next I'll try some carb cleaner and/or a
swop with known good unit.

There is no wooshing, all sounds very normal. Tickover is correct speed
and tickover mixture gives the same reading on my gastester as the good
car. Power and driveability are otherwise normal, if I am correct in
assuming a B230FK is a bit slower that the B230FT.

The engine actually revs up ok and doesn't conk out or particularily dip
(any more than a good car) on the de-rev when still. It seems to be
more when power is applied under acceleration something gets 'set' and
doesn't get unset or takes too long to reset. It just goes past the
tickover point and quickly conks out. However if you slow down in a
high gear so that it reaches tickover slowly it doesn't conk out.

When my good car (95 B230FT) de-revs it slows down as it gets closer to
the tickover rev as if it is noticing. Also if the car is still moving
it keeps the revs at 1200 or so until you stop, the faulty one doesn't
do that.

It feels like there is a minor sensor signal missing, how does the ECU
know the car is moving? How does it control the revs? what does the
Throttle closed switch do? Maybe I should swop out the ECU aswell.

The owner is quite sure it happened during the turbo replacement,
previously the dump valve was stuck open (gunked up engine due to no oil
changes). What relevance might that have?

 

[Tony]

I've been reading up and the manual (surprisingly) has some useful info.
Firstly while trying to follow your advice I found that the idle air
valve has to be open (its variable I assume, rather than open or closed
as the manual states) to idle properly. The basic tick over was correct
(it conks out).

Secondly it says the idle valve will only open when the throttle closed
switch is closed. I get the feeling its something to do with that,
either the throttle closed switch is not working or the info is not
getting to the ECU. Should be easily tested.

But why then does it idle ok all other times?

Either its not opening the idle air valve or its not detecting the
throttle closed switch.

The diagnostics may say something about that, but am I correct in
assuming if there are any codes stored the engine check light should
come on? Its not on, so I assume there is nothing stored and no point
in me checking.

 

[Michael Pardee]

I've been reading up and the manual (surprisingly) has some useful info.
Firstly while trying to follow your advice I found that the idle air valve
has to be open (its variable I assume, rather than open or closed as the
manual states) to idle properly. The basic tick over was correct (it
conks out).

Secondly it says the idle valve will only open when the throttle closed
switch is closed. I get the feeling its something to do with that, either
the throttle closed switch is not working or the info is not getting to
the ECU. Should be easily tested.

But why then does it idle ok all other times?

Either its not opening the idle air valve or its not detecting the
throttle closed switch.

I don't know how much difference there is in the control system between your
940 and my 760T, but I've found the idle passage on the bottom of the
throttle body is a very troublesome area. If your TB is like mine, there is
a knurled adjustment at the bottom. That knob should set the physical bypass
amount. Deposits love to build up in the passage and cause the sort of
symptoms you are having. When that happens I count the number of turns to
bottom out the adjustment, then unscrew the thumbscrew. I spray carb cleaner
from the intake through the adjuster hole and spray it into the adjuster
hole, then put the adjuster back in and screw it out the number of turns it
was before.

Mike

 

[Tony]

I don't know how much difference there is in the control system between your
940 and my 760T, but I've found the idle passage on the bottom of the
throttle body is a very troublesome area. If your TB is like mine, there is
a knurled adjustment at the bottom. That knob should set the physical bypass
amount. Deposits love to build up in the passage and cause the sort of
symptoms you are having. When that happens I count the number of turns to
bottom out the adjustment, then unscrew the thumbscrew. I spray carb cleaner
from the intake through the adjuster hole and spray it into the adjuster
hole, then put the adjuster back in and screw it out the number of turns it
was before.

Mike

Hmm, I don't know, the 940 idle bypass comes into the manifold from
above and from the inlet pipe nearer the radiator, but the pipe loops
round 180 and goes down to the bypass valve. The pipes and engine side
of the throttle body where were pretty clean (depite the rest of the
engine being an absolute pigsty).

I am still thinking the throttle closed switch is not closing maybe due
to carbon on the TB barrel (but it does click), and the engine then
assumes idle as a get-around-after-a-delay from the throttle position
output, but really it should report a fault then (if the programmer had
any sense).

I need to get at the car again, but the owner has it at the moment.

 

[Tony]

Hmm, I don't know, the 940 idle bypass comes into the manifold from
above and from the inlet pipe nearer the radiator, but the pipe loops
round 180 and goes down to the bypass valve. The pipes and engine side
of the throttle body where were pretty clean (depite the rest of the
engine being an absolute pigsty).

I am still thinking the throttle closed switch is not closing maybe due
to carbon on the TB barrel (but it does click), and the engine then
assumes idle as a get-around-after-a-delay from the throttle position
output, but really it should report a fault then (if the programmer had
any sense).

I need to get at the car again, but the owner has it at the moment.

Ok throttle body is now spotless thanks to some intake cleaner, but
still the fault remains.

Another theory is the Turbo dump valve is sticking closed, and the
pressure is keeping the throttle open until it dissapates, or buggering
up the mixture or something.
The owner got the turbo reconditioned for a stuck open dump valve and
general age, but the reconditioner might have not renewed it.

It matches up with the time the fault was introduced, and the power
requirement (Rather than reving up at standstill) to induce the fault.

Aux boost gauge will be applied tomorrow (why didn't they put one on
this car?), should prove or dissprove.

Next I'm after a OBD2 reader for assistance.

 

[Tony]

Ok throttle body is now spotless thanks to some intake cleaner, but
still the fault remains.

Another theory is the Turbo dump valve is sticking closed, and the
pressure is keeping the throttle open until it dissapates, or buggering
up the mixture or something.
The owner got the turbo reconditioned for a stuck open dump valve and
general age, but the reconditioner might have not renewed it.

It matches up with the time the fault was introduced, and the power
requirement (Rather than reving up at standstill) to induce the fault.

Aux boost gauge will be applied tomorrow (why didn't they put one on
this car?), should prove or dissprove.

Next I'm after a OBD2 reader for assistance.

Boost gauge shows normal pressure, but on removing the dump valve there
is a hole in the diaphram and I didn't have anything I wanted to risk
trying a temporary repair. Blocking the dumpvalve pressure feed didn't
help.

Will see if that sorts it, makes some sense under circstances but I
don't really understand why.

 

[Tony]

Boost gauge shows normal pressure, but on removing the dump valve there
is a hole in the diaphram and I didn't have anything I wanted to risk
trying a temporary repair. Blocking the dumpvalve pressure feed didn't
help.

Will see if that sorts it, makes some sense under circstances but I
don't really understand why.

I made a bodge repair with some sewing and silicon rubber and it seems
to have sorted it.

Strangely I don't get the subtle blow off I get in my 940 SE Turbo, but
I can only hear it sometimes.

I shall try and contact the refurb company and ask them how this could
have happened and what they are going to do about it.

Thanks for everyones help anyway, suggestions and explainations are
always useful even though they didn't hit the nail on the head.