Advice on buying an older Volvo

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Crap Master

I'm looking to buy an older Volvo, and can't spend very much. I've
always been totally in love with the 740/760 - it's totally an
aesthetic thing - I don't really know very much about cars. I guess
my biggest concern is about mileage. I know that I have to buy
something with a lot of miles, and I have no idea how much is too
much. I was thinking that 200K might be pushing it, but now that I've
read up on them a little bit, it seems not uncommon for them to last
to 300. I even read a review of one with 445K - un-f-ing-believable!

Until now, I've pretty much always had Japanese cars. I just can't
bring myself to buy another one because it seems like they're so
expensive. Ten years ago, you could buy a ten year old Japanese car
with 100K for $1000. Today, that very same car is 20 years old with
200K and still costs $1000. Those old Accords and Tercels are great,
but my impression has been that they're really hitting the end of the
line at 200K.

So anyway, what's a reasonable life span for a 740 and/or 760? Today
I saw a 1989 760 for $1000 with 309K - that seems like a little much
to me - and I've seen them cheaper on ebay.

I don't know if this matters, but I'll be using the car to deliver
newspapers, which unfortunately really kicks a car's ass. The last
time I got brake pads on my tercel, they lasted 7 months, and a new
set of tires lasted only a little bit longer (admittedly the cheapest
new - not retread - tires money can buy...)

Oh...I talk to much....thanks for any help!
 
It's interesting that they have maintained a strong reputation among many
people, even though they are often a world of trouble.

If you are not a hobbiest with a good shop and plenty of money, stay away!
Even routine stuff is very expensive. The very fact that you mentioned
money at alll indicates to me that you are in for disappointment. The only
thing that that might work is a VERY old 240 or some such, manual shift,
carb model. This is something that you can work on, but even so it's still
a money hog for parts.

I have an old corolla with 170K that runs like new. A buddy has an older
one with 270K. How about a Nissan or Mazda pickup...simple and easy to work
on and you can carry more papers!

OR an old Voyager. Even with a $1500 tranny, they are cheap. My 1990 has
203K and burns NO oil. It did have the tranny at 175K.

The Volvo stories are interesting, and probably mostly true, but I'd bet the
owners have paid plenty for routine and serious maintenance.

My son's 240 SW has had two crankshaft position sensors, a whole new rear
end ($700), and it's under 150K. My mother had a 940 of 960 sedan, which
ate an engine AND tranny before 125K. And she is in her 70's and hardly
leaves the city!

I'd love a Jag V-12, and could afford it, but fun is just not worth the
headaches. Buy something cheap and simple, run it until there is a killer
repair, and then start again. Sell all the papers you can and invest most
of the money. You'll then have a happier life and can take care of yourself
when the time comes.

More than you wanted to know, but I've been there!

Wilson
 
You want unbelieveable? 1.2 million miles on a P1800. I have 320K
on my 240 and it runs better than my Buick does with 140K on it. Twice
as good in fact. They don't even hand out mileage medalions anymore
until you hit 300 or 300K IIRC as 200K was too common. :)
Click to expand...

You can still get 100,000 mile medallions.
 
They don't even hand out mileage medalions anymore
You can still get 100,000 mile medallions.
Click to expand...


Just got my 100,000 mile medallion today!!! '92 960 Wagon

Larry Combs
The Gar Hole Brewery
LA (Lower Arkansas)
 
Until now, I've pretty much always had Japanese cars. I just can't
bring myself to buy another one because it seems like they're so
expensive. Ten years ago, you could buy a ten year old Japanese car
with 100K for $1000. Today, that very same car is 20 years old with
200K and still costs $1000. Those old Accords and Tercels are great,
but my impression has been that they're really hitting the end of the
line at 200K.
Click to expand...

The best predictor of reliability of a used car is the book value. If a
used car has a low book value it is because they are having trouble
selling them. If a used car has a high book value, it is because they
know its reputation is such that they can get that kind of money for
that mode.

Having said that, the price of a particular car is not a guarantee of
quality. Individual cars can be lemons. Even Volvos. I love Volvos
and have had good luck, but I have several friends who dumped relatively
new Volvos because they had problems (especially electrical problems)
that Volvo dealers were spending much time and money trying to fix.

"Your mileage may vary."

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to [email protected]
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA
Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '02 Volvos.
The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '02 through European Delivery.
www.users.fast.net/~shenning/index.html#anchor1325507.
 
Bob Wennerstrom said:
I think that's an over-generalization. My 87 Toyota truck has
235K on it and it doesn't use oil. Also, it has needed almost
no maintainince in the last 30K. I'm absolutely certain that
the drivetrain on this truck will survive past 300K. I've seen
many Hondas with over 200K still driving around as well. We got
210K out of a Civic wagon before we sold it. It was beginning
to use oil but wasn't dead yet.
Click to expand...

I've gotta agree, the highest mileage I've seen in the last 3 years of pick
a part crawling is 603XXX on a honda civic, wouldn't have noticed it except
it was the closest car with all its windows during a shower.
Dave Shannon
[email protected] (Spring Valley CA)
1988 240 DL 18X,XXX
1985 240 Ti 20X,XXX
1984 245 DL 20X,XXX
1984 245T 19X,XXX
'01 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 10K
http://www.homestead.com/volvo2/
 
The best predictor of reliability of a used car is the book value. If a
used car has a low book value it is because they are having trouble
selling them. If a used car has a high book value, it is because they
know its reputation is such that they can get that kind of money for
that mode.
Click to expand...

But note that heavy fleet use tends to depress used car values.
Also, perceived quality and reliability based on name plate may
have an impact. Compare the Chevrolet Prizm to the Toyota Corolla
(only cosmetically different, built in the same factory), for example.
 
I think that's an over-generalization. My 87 Toyota truck has
235K on it and it doesn't use oil. Also, it has needed almost
no maintainince in the last 30K. I'm absolutely certain that
the drivetrain on this truck will survive past 300K. I've seen
many Hondas with over 200K still driving around as well. We got
210K out of a Civic wagon before we sold it. It was beginning
to use oil but wasn't dead yet.
Click to expand...

Those old Toyota trucks really are excellent, the drivetrain is probably
comparable to Volvo, the interior does feel a bit cheaper though and the
safety isn't there but they're good trucks.
 
Wilson Lamb said:
It's interesting that they have maintained a strong reputation among many
people, even though they are often a world of trouble.

If you are not a hobbiest with a good shop and plenty of money, stay away!
Even routine stuff is very expensive. The very fact that you mentioned
money at alll indicates to me that you are in for disappointment. The only
thing that that might work is a VERY old 240 or some such, manual shift,
carb model. This is something that you can work on, but even so it's still
a money hog for parts.

I have an old corolla with 170K that runs like new. A buddy has an older
one with 270K. How about a Nissan or Mazda pickup...simple and easy to work
on and you can carry more papers!

OR an old Voyager. Even with a $1500 tranny, they are cheap. My 1990 has
203K and burns NO oil. It did have the tranny at 175K.

The Volvo stories are interesting, and probably mostly true, but I'd bet the
owners have paid plenty for routine and serious maintenance.

My son's 240 SW has had two crankshaft position sensors, a whole new rear
end ($700), and it's under 150K. My mother had a 940 of 960 sedan, which
ate an engine AND tranny before 125K. And she is in her 70's and hardly
leaves the city!
Click to expand...

There's something wrong there, we've got 7 older Volvos in the family,
nearly all with over 200k on them and they hardly ever need anything at all.
Most of the money I spend on mine goes to making them nicer, not fixing
things that break. My broke friend got a 740 GLE about a year ago and the
only thing that's happened to it so far is the spring on one of the door
hinges broke, new hinge was $5 from a junkyard. If you avoid the dealerships
and shop around for parts they're no more expensive than most other cars,
and they're much easier to work on too.
 
Pretty much agree w/ James. Not surprising that a kid could trash a
rear end or an older driver could burn up an engine and transmission
-- just keep driving it after pegging the temp indicator or breaking a
timing belt.
Our five 240s have over one million miles. Semi-retired '87 w/
300K has a rebuilt trans (at 150K) due to 100+ degree summer
conditions and operator error. It survived many teen mishaps and
should pass upcoming state inspection. Another has a replacement
engine because a former owner ignored temp gage and kept driving.
Once had to replace a steering rack (on a formerly owned '78) but I'll
take responsibility there. Have had to replace a couple air mass
meters ($$) and rebuilt an AC system w/ some new parts ($$$). Blower
motors sometimes makes noise ('87 has been screaming for 6 years but
still functions), and rear seals will leak, but nothing terrible. The
240 engines are built to such tolerances that can run on a quart or
two of oil w/o damage (just don't do it intentionally). Good
shocks/struts last 60K easily. Paint looks good forever if half
maintained. Have never replaced an alternator. Have 220K miles on an
original clutch.
True cost of a car is average cost to operate (including
depreciation) over a longer period of time and cost of a 240 is very
low, especially considering safety factor. Buying used can be tricky
since "bargains" often have a lot of deferred maintenance (which is OK
if you know what you are getting into). Unless you really know what
you're doing, probably much, much cheaper in the long run to pay at
high end of book value for one that has been properly serviced and
cared for than going for the "dime in the urinal."
 
I appreciate these good experiences, but I don't understand them. Of course
we are talking statistics, so we have to remember that there is a wide range
of performance.

My 240 ate clutch cables, at $80 each, when I was making $9K/yr. That was
Volvo replacement, but not well made. My mothers car was a used creampuff
from a friend, Volvo maintained. Wouldn't get out of its own way, ate
engine, ate tranny, went to a friends boneyard to feed his driver.

The son's s/w was a dealer pampered creampuff, but developed screaming rear
end anyway. Replacement required a cat fight to collect on warranty sold by
dealer and cost nearly $1K. This one is driven by his timid wife. Anyway,
the auto tranny doesn't deliver enough torque to damage anything!

My advice to the poster had as much to do with potential repair liability as
with actual performance. It doesn't sound like he is a gearhead who can do
a lot for himself, so junkyard crawling is probably not in his cards. Our
mechanic, who is good, won't let a Volvo in the door and the Volvo
mechanics, even non-dealer, are usually snotty and expensive. When
CrapMaster has a load of papers to get out, he'll be behind the 8Ball with
only these people to lean on and they'll probably fry him.

OK, that's my two cents worth. Cheap, common, simple, seems to be the
formula I like, especially when money is better spent on beer than on cars.
I even liked my Taurus!

Good luck,
Wilson
 
Really? Heh. The local dealers don't carry them.
Click to expand...

You can go to ownerconnection.com and sign up for the high mileage
club. Eventually, they will send you one if you report enough mileage.
 
one of the few Japanese cars i have heard good things about were
the trucks...i agree...i was commenting on (that "i don't hear of too
many > 200k mile Japanese's cars around" ) a sedan more comparable to
the volvo line of autos, not volvo trucks or suv's...although i would
like to spend some time driving their trucks.......go scoop me up some
dirt.....


anyway, sure there were a few good Japanese's cars & trucks...but believe
me...turn some wrenches on both, (for say, at least 25 hours) and you
can see the difference in engineering, materials, and fasteners....
 
Joseph Oberlander said:
Really? Heh. The local dealers don't carry them.
Click to expand...

What the local dealer should carry is the application you send in to get
the medallion. You can also get the medallions on line.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to [email protected]
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA
Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '02 Volvos.
The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '02 through European Delivery.
www.users.fast.net/~shenning/index.html#anchor1325507.
 
Also, perceived quality and reliability based on name plate may
have an impact. Compare the Chevrolet Prizm to the Toyota Corolla
(only cosmetically different, built in the same factory), for example.
Click to expand...

actually Toyota dealers may do a better job of keeping them on the road
than Chevy dealers. There may be a real difference when they reach the
used car market.

One example of this is that a car that has one problem is more likely to
have other unrelated problems than a car that didn't have a problem.
The reason is the act of servicing a car reduces its reliability.
Apparently colateral damage is the reason. Obviously the techniques of
the mechanic are an important factor. A mechanic that doesn't
specialize on a particular model will be more likely to cause colateral
damage.
 
Wilson said:
My 240 ate clutch cables, at $80 each, when I was making $9K/yr. That was
Volvo replacement, but not well made. My mothers car was a used creampuff
from a friend, Volvo maintained. Wouldn't get out of its own way, ate
engine, ate tranny, went to a friends boneyard to feed his driver.
Click to expand...

Clutch cables are really consumables, IMO, kind of like distributor
caps and such - every so often they need replacement. This is part of
the huge price savings on a manual transmission - roughly $300-350 for
a clutch job and maybe $100 a year in maintainence vs nothing until it
breaks and then "OMG - $1400???".

If you were only making 9K a year - consider yourself lucky. My sister's
Buick LeSabre eats at least $1000 a year in maintainence. A computer module?
$200 here. Engine mounts. A/C. Radiators. Alternators. Tires - batteries
and such not included.

Ate tranny and low HP - well, they are not 850 turbos, afterall, though
stick does help.
The son's s/w was a dealer pampered creampuff, but developed screaming rear
end anyway. Replacement required a cat fight to collect on warranty sold by
dealer and cost nearly $1K. This one is driven by his timid wife. Anyway,
the auto tranny doesn't deliver enough torque to damage anything!
Click to expand...

So - gosh - easy to get a new rear diff. I spent $650 on new brakes
for my beater Buick last spring. If $1K is all it needs every few years,
you're not talking about major money.

FYI - Payments on a Focus run about $250 a month. In four months of
payments, you've paid for a year's repair on that old Volvo or a
new clutch and tires, or that rear diff or... The Older vehicle is
fine for the rest of the year and you still have 8 more payments on
that new one($2000).

If you want cheap and simple, that 2K or more a year you save(closer to
3.5K on a S40) buys a lot of repairs. In fact, you could buy an old
vehicle every year for $3K for ten years and come out ahead after you
factor in registration fees(high on a new car - mine is $52 a year!),
taxes, and interest on the loan.

I've had four cars in the last ten years:
1975 164E
1988 Dodge Colt(ecch, but free)
1987 Buick LeSabre(pampered father's car)
1990 Volvo 240

The 164E was the most frugal to keep running, followed by the 240.
The Buick is the backup car(wife is learning to finally drive, too),
but it does cost about $500-1000 a year in repairs. Grrr.

That 164E - put $2000 into it in three years I owned it, including
a new transmission, gas, oil changes, tires, and everything else,
including registration and such. Just ran and ran and ran.

The 240 needed a new Cat converter and O2 sensor. Put new tires
on it and well - $19.95 for an oil change in the last four months.
 
Stephen said:
What the local dealer should carry is the application you send in to get
the medallion. You can also get the medallions on line.
Click to expand...

So does it look odd to have 100K, 200K and 300K, or is it more proper
to just display the highest one? My 240 has 230K on it, so it's just
getting "broke in".
 
I'm sorry Wilson,m I thought you were making some valid points...... until
you said you liked a Taurus!
 
Joseph Oberlander said:
You want unbelieveable? 1.2 million miles on a P1800. I have 320K
on my 240 and it runs better than my Buick does with 140K on it. Twice
as good in fact. They don't even hand out mileage medalions anymore
until you hit 300 or 300K IIRC as 200K was too common. :)
Click to expand...

That volvo had a full engine rebuild at 680K :-)

WIth regular oil changes and plenty of good long runs any engine can do big
miles.
 
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