any ideas to this problem?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Beck
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Beck

1993 Volvo 240 Estate (unleaded)

The car stalls when slowing down - slowing down for road humps, or other
drivers or coming up to a junction. Takes a minute or two to restart the
engine or sometimes up to 10 minutes. A second before it stalls, the engine
warning lamp lights up.

There are no errors coming up on diagnostic console and it comes up with
1-1-1 clear.

Parts we have changed...

Ignition coil
Air mass meter
Thermostat
Rear exhaust
Distributor cap
spark plugs and lead set
Fuel filter

Had the AA recovery out yesterday and the guy suggested thats it is possible
the ignition module. So we will buy that part tomorrow.

Any thoughts or experiences on this problem? The car maybe be old, but it
works fine other than this problem. There is one minor problem that it
needs a new battery, the current one requires charging every few days and
its not holding its charge. Could this be linked?
 
if the car runs normally until you try to come to a stop as described, I
think most of the items you've changed could have been ruled out ahead of
time... That is, you'd expect running problems with a bad ignition coil or
other ignition parts. Not that putting in new plugs and ignition wires and
such is bad, just not likely to have been the cause of your problem....

Sounds more like a fuel mixture problem, perhaps a massive air leak causing
it to run too lean at a stop, or maybe the idle control valve?....

For what it's worth, I've had occasional problems with the external fuel
pump on my 89' 240 wagon, and have become quite adept at changing the pump.
In my case, I usually know a problem is developing when the car begins to
hesitate on acceleration, or loses power, or even just plain dies and won't
restart... A new pump and I'm on the way again. Have replaced both pumps
twice, and the external pump a third time by itself.

m9876c at yahoo dot com
 
Beck said:
1993 Volvo 240 Estate (unleaded)

The car stalls when slowing down - slowing down for road humps, or other
drivers or coming up to a junction. Takes a minute or two to restart the
engine or sometimes up to 10 minutes. A second before it stalls, the engine
warning lamp lights up.
Click to expand...

A hunch to me would be a loose connection somewhere which becomes open
circuit under negetive g, or speed bumps, as you say it will not re start
for upto 10mins after it has stalled.

It should be relatively easy to determine if you are lacking fuel or sparks
whilst it will not re start.

Stop throwing new parts blindly at it.

Tim..
 
Perry said:
if the car runs normally until you try to come to a stop as
described, I think most of the items you've changed could have been
ruled out ahead of time... That is, you'd expect running problems
with a bad ignition coil or other ignition parts. Not that putting in
new plugs and ignition wires and such is bad, just not likely to have
been the cause of your problem....
Click to expand...

Some of the parts we changed like the spark set and rear exhaust were just
parts that needed to be changed anyway, I wanted to add them to be clear on
what we have done. :-)
Sounds more like a fuel mixture problem, perhaps a massive air leak
causing it to run too lean at a stop, or maybe the idle control
valve?....
Click to expand...

We did consider the possibility of funny fuel and changed the brand we used
from BP to Shell but that made no difference. Oil is at the correct levels
(although not sure what oil we use).
Is the idle control valve easy to replace?
If it is faulty, is it something which comes up on the diagnostics? We are
currently clear from error numbers.
For what it's worth, I've had occasional problems with the external
fuel pump on my 89' 240 wagon, and have become quite adept at
changing the pump. In my case, I usually know a problem is developing
when the car begins to hesitate on acceleration, or loses power, or
even just plain dies and won't restart... A new pump and I'm on the
way again. Have replaced both pumps twice, and the external pump a
third time by itself.
Click to expand...

My Dad asked the recovery guy whether it could be the fuel pump, he said its
possible, but unlikely.
Cannot keep throwing money at this car and we obviously cannot go on much
longer. £50 here and there really puts a dent in the finances. If we
cannot fix it then will have to save up and put it through a volvo garage.
At £60 an hour it will not come cheap.
 
Tim said:
A hunch to me would be a loose connection somewhere which becomes open
circuit under negetive g, or speed bumps, as you say it will not re
start for upto 10mins after it has stalled.

It should be relatively easy to determine if you are lacking fuel or
sparks whilst it will not re start.

Stop throwing new parts blindly at it.
Click to expand...

Well we are not throwing parts blindly at it. Unfortunately we have gone on
the advice from others on what to try. The last advice was to change the air
mass meter (as that was giving an error code anyway) this advice was from a
volvo engineer.

How do we determine if we are lacking fuel upon trying to restart?
 
I suspect an air leak, in the big flexi-pipe that connects between the air
mass meter and the engine. It's cracked in one of the folds and you won't
find it unless you look closely and carefully.

It's sucking extra unmetered air and running lean.
 
Beck said:
Well we are not throwing parts blindly at it. Unfortunately we have gone on
the advice from others on what to try. The last advice was to change the air
mass meter (as that was giving an error code anyway) this advice was from a
volvo engineer.

How do we determine if we are lacking fuel upon trying to restart?
Click to expand...

Crank it for a time and smell the exhuast or pull the plugs and see if they
are wet.

Really if you have to ask this kind of rudimentary question i am not
surprised you are swapping parts according to what Tom, Dick or Harry
suggests, rather than diagnosing the problem and treating the symptom.

Do the fuel pumps run when it wont restart? Have you checked both pumps are
working? That the transfer tube isnt holed? Have you opened the fuel pump
relay and resoldered the joints? All these are very common intermittent
faults on a 240.

Tim..
 
Beck said:
Well we are not throwing parts blindly at it. Unfortunately we have gone
on the advice from others on what to try. The last advice was to change
the air mass meter (as that was giving an error code anyway) this advice
was from a volvo engineer.

How do we determine if we are lacking fuel upon trying to restart?
Click to expand...
The easiest way is to spray a couple second burst of starting fluid into the
air cleaner (I usually spray the filter with the stuff.) Close the air
cleaner up immediately and try restarting. If the engine runs for a few
seconds and dies you can be sure the problem is fuel starvation.

Of course, the fuel pump relay is notorious... but the part about slowing
down triggering it makes me wonder. It sure would be nice to know what the
fuel pressure is doing when it conks out.

Mike
 
1993 Volvo 240 Estate (unleaded)
Click to expand...
The car stalls when slowing down - slowing down for road humps, or other
drivers or coming up to a junction. Takes a minute or two to restart the
engine or sometimes up to 10 minutes. A second before it stalls, the engine
warning lamp lights up.
Click to expand...
[ ... ]

Changed the air filter recently?

Are you seeing any black smoke when you restart? If so, it's flooding;
address that issue--clogged air filter, bad sensor, or leaking injectors.

If you're not seeing black smoke, it's probably an intake leak as others
have mentioned. However, that usually doesn't require a lot of cranking
when restarting.


Gary
 
Beck said:
1993 Volvo 240 Estate (unleaded)

The car stalls when slowing down - slowing down for road humps, or other
drivers or coming up to a junction. Takes a minute or two to restart the
engine or sometimes up to 10 minutes. A second before it stalls, the engine
warning lamp lights up.

There are no errors coming up on diagnostic console and it comes up with
1-1-1 clear.

Parts we have changed...

Ignition coil
Air mass meter
Thermostat
Rear exhaust
Distributor cap
spark plugs and lead set
Fuel filter

Had the AA recovery out yesterday and the guy suggested thats it is possible
the ignition module. So we will buy that part tomorrow.

Any thoughts or experiences on this problem? The car maybe be old, but it
works fine other than this problem. There is one minor problem that it
needs a new battery, the current one requires charging every few days and
its not holding its charge. Could this be linked?
Click to expand...

Very well could be a low battery and the alternator is not delivering enough
voltage at low rpm to keep ignition going. If you are applying the brakes
to slow down this takes even more voltage from the ignition because it
lights up your brake lights. Do you have a way to hook up a voltmeter while
driving to see what the voltage actually is while slowing down?

Allen
 
More likely that the regulator/brushes on the alternator are worn out or the
earth lead from alternator body to engine block has become detatched.

All the best, Peter.

700/900/90 Register Keeper,
Volvo Owners Club (UK).
 
................
.. There is one minor problem that it
Very well could be a low battery and the alternator is not delivering enough
voltage at low rpm to keep ignition going. If you are applying the brakes
to slow down this takes even more voltage from the ignition because it
lights up your brake lights. Do you have a way to hook up a voltmeter while
driving to see what the voltage actually is while slowing down?
Click to expand...
I back that suggestion. And why throw all that other stuff at it when it
needs at least a battery anyway?
 
Tim said:
Crank it for a time and smell the exhuast or pull the plugs and see
if they are wet.

Really if you have to ask this kind of rudimentary question i am not
surprised you are swapping parts according to what Tom, Dick or Harry
suggests, rather than diagnosing the problem and treating the symptom.
Click to expand...

Well we are not car mechanics in this household and have to go on the advice
of others. not everybody is knowledgable about these things.
Do the fuel pumps run when it wont restart? Have you checked both
pumps are working? That the transfer tube isnt holed? Have you
opened the fuel pump relay and resoldered the joints? All these are
very common intermittent faults on a 240.
Click to expand...

To my knowledge they do run, but I will have to confirm this with the
driver.
 
Michael said:
The easiest way is to spray a couple second burst of starting fluid
into the air cleaner (I usually spray the filter with the stuff.)
Close the air cleaner up immediately and try restarting. If the
engine runs for a few seconds and dies you can be sure the problem is
fuel starvation.
Click to expand...

Thankyou I shall pass that on
Of course, the fuel pump relay is notorious... but the part about
slowing down triggering it makes me wonder. It sure would be nice to
know what the fuel pressure is doing when it conks out.
Click to expand...

If there is an open road, the car will run fine for miles and miles. If we
can get rid of road humps, slower drivers and junctions there would be no
problem ;-)
 
Allen said:
Very well could be a low battery and the alternator is not delivering
enough voltage at low rpm to keep ignition going. If you are
applying the brakes to slow down this takes even more voltage from
the ignition because it lights up your brake lights. Do you have a
way to hook up a voltmeter while driving to see what the voltage
actually is while slowing down?
Click to expand...

Thats an interesting thought. When the AA were called out the other day and
it stalled my dad could not restart the car at all as the battery was dead
he had recharged it a few days before but obviously the weak charge is
getting weaker. The AA guy put a quick charge on the battery then followed
him home. Had a look at the car, didn't think the battery was the cause
(although the battery is a problem in itself) and suggested this ignition
module.
I am sure we can hook up a voltmeter to it for a while we have a couple
here. I guess just attach it to the battery and monitor the output. If the
leads are long enough, could pass it from side of bonnet into car window so
passenger car check while driver is driving.
 
Robert said:
I suspect an air leak, in the big flexi-pipe that connects between
the air mass meter and the engine. It's cracked in one of the folds
and you won't find it unless you look closely and carefully.

It's sucking extra unmetered air and running lean.
Click to expand...

Thankyou Robert, shall check this one this evening. I know the pipe you
mean, its a large corrugated type pipe?
 
Gary said:
Changed the air filter recently?

Are you seeing any black smoke when you restart? If so, it's flooding;
address that issue--clogged air filter, bad sensor, or leaking
injectors.

If you're not seeing black smoke, it's probably an intake leak as
others have mentioned. However, that usually doesn't require a lot of
cranking when restarting.
Click to expand...

No black smoke as far as I recall when I have been in the car. I shall put
this sugestion forward, thanks very much.
 
Hello

A mechanic taught me this long ago and it has always held true. If the
car engine is dying slowly it is a fuel problem, fuel starvation or too
much air not enough fuel. If the car engine jerks violently and dies
it is an electrical problem.

Sounds to me to be fuel related as you did not mention any violent
jerking of the car. It could be the fuel pump relay cutting out and
starving you of fuel, and it could be the flexi-pipe that connects
between the air mass meter and the engine.

When a car is slowing down, then engine will rock slightly, this could
be opening a circuit or a crack in a hose. Focus in this direction.

Hope that helps.
Russ
 
Russ said:
Hello

A mechanic taught me this long ago and it has always held true. If
the car engine is dying slowly it is a fuel problem, fuel starvation
or too much air not enough fuel. If the car engine jerks violently
and dies it is an electrical problem.

Sounds to me to be fuel related as you did not mention any violent
jerking of the car. It could be the fuel pump relay cutting out and
starving you of fuel, and it could be the flexi-pipe that connects
between the air mass meter and the engine.

When a car is slowing down, then engine will rock slightly, this could
be opening a circuit or a crack in a hose. Focus in this direction.
Click to expand...

HI Russ, thanks for the reply. Been getting quite a bit of help on this
prolem and the warning signs are now pointing to a faulty fuel pump relay.
Although it could probably also be one of fifty alternative things. Going
to borrow a new relay in the morning to test.
 
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