ball joint - tie rod ends

  • Thread starter Thread starter jr
  • Start date Start date
J

jr

Hello All,
My S70, it's a 98, is going to need new outer tie rod end on one side.
It is inspection time and these parts get checked. For my car they find
the passenger side has some play and none is allowed so it failed
inspection. Honestly I am glad they found this as the safety implactions
are not trivial. This will be repaired asap as this car is driven at
highways speeds regularly. I gather it will need an alignment after this
part is put on. Are there any tips to doing this job that anyone can
offer? Is it logical to do both sides, as one side has failed I wonder
can the other side be far from failing too? Since an alignment is
involved does it make sense to any one to do both sides now? fyi 125,000
miles on the original parts mostly highways miles.

I have always understood one can get the replacement tie rod end on
close enought to have it aligned right away. I have never worked on tie
rod ends before and the chiltons manual I have seems a bit thin on info
for this procedure.

On a seperate note the ball joint on the passenger side has a small
amount of movement. It appears to be part of the arm and not a seperate
part as in past models. It was suggest to replace this to to be sure to
be able to sst the alignment correctly. Comments?

Is it straight forward to remove the bolts on the arm and the nut on the
ball joint. Does the ball joint come out once the nut is off or is a
puller needed, I ask as I do not have a puller and would very much like
to know before I am in the middle of this job. I am going to be doing
this in the cold temps of winter and want to be as prepaired as
possible. To get the ball joint side of the arm off will is it necessary
to remove the rotor and caliper? I have done rotor and caliper before so
I know what is involved, just not looking forward to doing it in the cold.

I am considering using aftermarket parts and want to avoid a false cost
savings by finding the parts don't hold up well and have to be replaced
much sooner than original parts. Anyone able to share real world
experience on scan tech, Meyle and any other aftermarket brands.

Appreciate all replies.
JR
 
jr said:
Hello All,
My S70, it's a 98, is going to need new outer tie rod end on one side.
It is inspection time and these parts get checked. For my car they find
the passenger side has some play and none is allowed so it failed
inspection. Honestly I am glad they found this as the safety implactions
are not trivial. This will be repaired asap as this car is driven at
highways speeds regularly. I gather it will need an alignment after this
part is put on. Are there any tips to doing this job that anyone can
offer? Is it logical to do both sides, as one side has failed I wonder
can the other side be far from failing too? Since an alignment is
involved does it make sense to any one to do both sides now? fyi 125,000
miles on the original parts mostly highways miles.

I have always understood one can get the replacement tie rod end on
close enought to have it aligned right away. I have never worked on tie
rod ends before and the chiltons manual I have seems a bit thin on info
for this procedure.

On a seperate note the ball joint on the passenger side has a small
amount of movement. It appears to be part of the arm and not a seperate
part as in past models. It was suggest to replace this to to be sure to
be able to sst the alignment correctly. Comments?

Is it straight forward to remove the bolts on the arm and the nut on the
ball joint. Does the ball joint come out once the nut is off or is a
puller needed, I ask as I do not have a puller and would very much like
to know before I am in the middle of this job. I am going to be doing
this in the cold temps of winter and want to be as prepaired as
possible. To get the ball joint side of the arm off will is it necessary
to remove the rotor and caliper? I have done rotor and caliper before so
I know what is involved, just not looking forward to doing it in the cold.

I am considering using aftermarket parts and want to avoid a false cost
savings by finding the parts don't hold up well and have to be replaced
much sooner than original parts. Anyone able to share real world
experience on scan tech, Meyle and any other aftermarket brands.

Appreciate all replies.
JR
Click to expand...


you MAY find theres not much difference in part price. Depends where abouts
in teh world you are.
Personally i'd have them both checked and.. probably do both anyway.
If its just one side thats bad and the other is perfect its worth thinking
about WHY that side is like it is.
Could something else be causing it.

Rob
 
Rob said:
you MAY find theres not much difference in part price. Depends where abouts
in teh world you are.
Personally i'd have them both checked and.. probably do both anyway.
If its just one side thats bad and the other is perfect its worth thinking
about WHY that side is like it is.
Could something else be causing it.

Rob
Click to expand...
Thank you Rob for replying,

I am in the northeast USA and find that the aftermarket prices are
approx 1 / 3 the cost of original. a 60% to 70% lower price. That adds
up when the original parts will cost $525 or thereabouts (both tie rod
ends and both arms-ball joints).
I am leaning towards doing both sides which I why I am looking for as
much info on what is involved as I can get prior to starting. The car
sees 85% to 90% highway driving and the roads are maintained (pot holes
and such) fairly well. I wish I knew what could be causing it.

I am interested in the pitfalls and any tip to taking this on as a DIY
project.
Thanks
JR
 
jr said:
Hello All,
My S70, it's a 98, is going to need new outer tie rod end on one side.
It is inspection time and these parts get checked. For my car they find
the passenger side has some play and none is allowed so it failed
inspection. Honestly I am glad they found this as the safety implactions
are not trivial. This will be repaired asap as this car is driven at
highways speeds regularly. I gather it will need an alignment after this
part is put on. Are there any tips to doing this job that anyone can
offer? Is it logical to do both sides, as one side has failed I wonder
can the other side be far from failing too? Since an alignment is
involved does it make sense to any one to do both sides now? fyi 125,000
miles on the original parts mostly highways miles.

I have always understood one can get the replacement tie rod end on
close enought to have it aligned right away. I have never worked on tie
rod ends before and the chiltons manual I have seems a bit thin on info
for this procedure.

On a seperate note the ball joint on the passenger side has a small
amount of movement. It appears to be part of the arm and not a seperate
part as in past models. It was suggest to replace this to to be sure to
be able to sst the alignment correctly. Comments?

Is it straight forward to remove the bolts on the arm and the nut on the
ball joint. Does the ball joint come out once the nut is off or is a
puller needed, I ask as I do not have a puller and would very much like
to know before I am in the middle of this job. I am going to be doing
this in the cold temps of winter and want to be as prepaired as
possible. To get the ball joint side of the arm off will is it necessary
to remove the rotor and caliper? I have done rotor and caliper before so
I know what is involved, just not looking forward to doing it in the cold.

I am considering using aftermarket parts and want to avoid a false cost
savings by finding the parts don't hold up well and have to be replaced
much sooner than original parts. Anyone able to share real world
experience on scan tech, Meyle and any other aftermarket brands.

Appreciate all replies.
JR
Click to expand...

Tie rod ends will last forever if their lubrication doesn't fail and no
impurities get into the joint, so I'd leave the good one for now.

The tie rod end is often rusted onto the steering rod, at least in my
climate, and it sounds like yours is similar. Sometimes they come right
off, other time you need to use a torch.

The control arm unbolts from the subframe fairly easily, and the one
pinch bolt on the strut comes out easily as well. However the ball
joint is jammed in the bottom of the strut due to rust. A cold chisel
of the correct size will open the hole that the ball joint is in enough
to enable easy removal.

A layer of wheel bearing grease everywhere steel meets steel upon
reassembly will eliminate the seizing problems for next time.

When you change the parts, the only adjustment you'll affect is the toe
on the one side. Assuming that the car is currently perfectly aligned,
you can get it exactly right if the steering wheel is still points
straight ahead when
you're done.


--
Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
 
Mike said:
jr wrote: snip


Tie rod ends will last forever if their lubrication doesn't fail and no
impurities get into the joint, so I'd leave the good one for now.

The tie rod end is often rusted onto the steering rod, at least in my
climate, and it sounds like yours is similar. Sometimes they come right
off, other time you need to use a torch.

The control arm unbolts from the subframe fairly easily, and the one
pinch bolt on the strut comes out easily as well. However the ball
joint is jammed in the bottom of the strut due to rust. A cold chisel
of the correct size will open the hole that the ball joint is in enough
to enable easy removal.

A layer of wheel bearing grease everywhere steel meets steel upon
reassembly will eliminate the seizing problems for next time.

When you change the parts, the only adjustment you'll affect is the toe
on the one side. Assuming that the car is currently perfectly aligned,
you can get it exactly right if the steering wheel is still points
straight ahead when
you're done.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike,
This is the kind of detail I am in need of. I will try spraying the tie
rod end with penatrating oil over a few days to see If I can avoid the
torch. All I have is a propane model and I would like to avoid using it
if possible. It sounds like the reference to a cold chisle used to cut
the material that makes the tapered socket the ball joint fits in or did
I missunderstand ?

Would a "pickle fork" (a tapered u shaped dual pointed fork) be of any
help in getting the ball joint out? I wonder if there is room to get one
in place considering I will be doing this on a jack stand.

I gather you generally are working with original parts, do you see many
aftermarket parts of this type coming off that did not hold up well?
Looking for insight into the classic question of "are aftermarket parts
going to hold up virtually as well as original?"

Appreciate your effort to reply
JR
 
jr said:
Thanks Mike,
This is the kind of detail I am in need of. I will try spraying the tie
rod end with penatrating oil over a few days to see If I can avoid the
torch. All I have is a propane model and I would like to avoid using it
if possible. It sounds like the reference to a cold chisle used to cut
the material that makes the tapered socket the ball joint fits in or did
I missunderstand ?

Would a "pickle fork" (a tapered u shaped dual pointed fork) be of any
help in getting the ball joint out? I wonder if there is room to get one
in place considering I will be doing this on a jack stand.

I gather you generally are working with original parts, do you see many
aftermarket parts of this type coming off that did not hold up well?
Looking for insight into the classic question of "are aftermarket parts
going to hold up virtually as well as original?"

Appreciate your effort to reply
JR
Click to expand...

The ball joint socket is not tapered. There hole is not quite a
complete circle, and a bolt is used parallel to the circumference at the
gap in the circle to squeeze the hole around the ball joint pin. The
cold chisel is used as a wedge in this gap (after the bolt is removed)
to open the hole up slightly. There is no cutting done with the cold
chisel.

I've never used a pickle fork, I don't like them.

I used TRW branded parts on my cars. I can't comment on their
durability yet, all the parts I've changed have been in use for less
that a year.

--
Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
 
Mike said:
The ball joint socket is not tapered. There hole is not quite a
complete circle, and a bolt is used parallel to the circumference at the
gap in the circle to squeeze the hole around the ball joint pin. The
cold chisel is used as a wedge in this gap (after the bolt is removed)
to open the hole up slightly. There is no cutting done with the cold
chisel.

I've never used a pickle fork, I don't like them.

I used TRW branded parts on my cars. I can't comment on their
durability yet, all the parts I've changed have been in use for less
that a year.
Click to expand...
Great additional detail. I did expect a taper. I have seen this
concept used as a locking method for nuts and bolts. Any suggestions on
chisel size? I need an excuse to add to my collection. I have a 1/4"
and a 3/4" and I think a 1/2".

Since the hole is an deformation fit ( kind like an interference fit but
different) I take it that the threads on the new ball joint are all that
is needed to bring it into position, along with some grease as you have
suggested earlier.

I am not a fan of the pickle fork. I was doing ball joints on a 740 and
was having no sucess getting the old one out. Went to the local store
and was shown one and told they work well. It did work, but is a brute
force solution.

Again, thanks for the details
JR
 
jr said:
Great additional detail. I did expect a taper. I have seen this
concept used as a locking method for nuts and bolts. Any suggestions on
chisel size? I need an excuse to add to my collection. I have a 1/4"
and a 3/4" and I think a 1/2".

Since the hole is an deformation fit ( kind like an interference fit but
different) I take it that the threads on the new ball joint are all that
is needed to bring it into position, along with some grease as you have
suggested earlier.

I am not a fan of the pickle fork. I was doing ball joints on a 740 and
was having no sucess getting the old one out. Went to the local store
and was shown one and told they work well. It did work, but is a brute
force solution.

Again, thanks for the details
JR
Click to expand...

I had a complete set of chisels. The one I used was certainly bigger
than 1/2" - I probably used a 3/4. You'll be able to see if yours is
any good right at the start of the job, as soon as you crawl under. The
new ball joint will slide in place easily if you clean the rust out of
the hole.

--
Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
 
Mike said:
I had a complete set of chisels. The one I used was certainly bigger
than 1/2" - I probably used a 3/4. You'll be able to see if yours is
any good right at the start of the job, as soon as you crawl under. The
new ball joint will slide in place easily if you clean the rust out of
the hole.
Click to expand...
Just reporting back to the group, that without the guidance of the nice
people that replied to my posts I probably would not have attempted this
myself.
As luck would have it I did the control arm/ball joint on one day and
the tie rod end a few days later. There was an error on the parts
delivery and I ended up with the wrong side for the tie rod end being
delivered with the control arm. I had a 7/8" chisel and it is used as a
wedge and it worked for me on the control arm. I did use a puller from a
local auto parts store to get the tie rod end out. The puller made the
job an absolute breeze to do. Using the puller made the tie rod end leap
out, I wondered if it was even needed. I did my best to make
measurements of the new and old parts and the position of the old part
on the car, and counted threads to get the new tie rod back into it's
proper position. It was close, but as the car sees a noticeable number
of miles per week, I decided to get it aligned sooner rather than later.

This is a great group.
Thanks
JR
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top