Clutch in or out?

  • Thread starter Thread starter brackenburn
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brackenburn

Hi,

To settle an argument,(or start one?).
With a manual transmission, when stopped at a traffic light, should the car
be in gear with the clutch disengaged, or in neutral with the clutch
engaged?
I'm interested mainly from the "wear and tear" point of view.

Andy I. (1993 240 Classic wagon)
 
brackenburn said:
Hi,

To settle an argument,(or start one?).
With a manual transmission, when stopped at a traffic light, should the car
be in gear with the clutch disengaged, or in neutral with the clutch
engaged?
I'm interested mainly from the "wear and tear" point of view.

Andy I. (1993 240 Classic wagon)
Click to expand...
The main wear-and-tear is mainly on your left leg, keeping the pedal down.
If, however, you don't push th epedal down all the way, you can wear the
clutch plate.
 
I have always been told to leave the car in neutral with your foot on the
brake when stopped at a light. Staying in gear with the clutch pedal to the
floor supposedly causes extra wear on the throw out bearing.
 
It not only wears the throwout bearing, it also wears the spring of the pressure plate.
This is not designed to stay 'unclamped' for very long. Depending on the pressure plate
type, there may be little fingers that come into the center. When you push on the clutch,
those fingers get pushed on, releasing the clamping action of the pressure plate. The
throwout bearing can wear the fingers in time, creating a weak spot, and eventual failure
of the pressure plate.

I've changed enough clutch assemblies to know a little about them, I change it on my race
car every 3 races!

I also love those guys who are at a light uphill, not using the brake, but lunging
forward/backward using the clutch pedal. yeah, that will make the clutch last.

That and downshifting, which is not necessary unless you are getting ready to exit a turn
in that gear. I wouldn't use your engine to brake, it wears the clutch & components, uses
more fuel, and brakes are a lot cheaper and easier to replace.

You would only downshift under racing situations when you need to exit a slow turn in a
lower gear due to the momentum you've lost in corner entry (braking, etc.)
 
Hi,

To settle an argument,(or start one?).
With a manual transmission, when stopped at a traffic light, should the car
be in gear with the clutch disengaged, or in neutral with the clutch
engaged?
I'm interested mainly from the "wear and tear" point of view.

Andy I. (1993 240 Classic wagon)
Click to expand...
In terms of the health of the throwout bearing, it is generally best to
let the car idle in neutral with the clutch engaged [foot off of the
clutch]. However, there are safety and common sense considerations which
may require keeping the clutch depressed. If you cannot see the 'other
side' of the traffic light to recognize the yellow light as the signal to
depress the clutch and put the lever in first, then you may have to keep the
car in first with clutch disengaged. Otherwise, you lose a couple of
seconds when the light turns green, and receive honking horns behind you.
 
brackenburn said:
Hi,

To settle an argument,(or start one?).
With a manual transmission, when stopped at a traffic light, should the car
be in gear with the clutch disengaged, or in neutral with the clutch
engaged?
I'm interested mainly from the "wear and tear" point of view.

Andy I. (1993 240 Classic wagon)
Click to expand...

Leaving it in puts more wear on the throwout bearing, pressure plate and
thrust bearing in the engine, leaving it out puts more wear on the tranny
input shaft bearings and 1st gear syncro when you shift back into gear. It's
a tradeoff, I usually hold the pedal in for short lights and shift into
neutral for long ones.
 
What about putting it into say, third gear from fourth to slow down in bad
weather.
 
Same thing, I watch the other traffic lights too, so I don't have to put it
in gear when people are waiting for me to go. If there is no one behind me
at a major intersection i'll hold it in... Just in case.
 
Joe and Ruth Levy said:
If you cannot see the 'other
side' of the traffic light to recognize the yellow light as the signal to
depress the clutch and put the lever in first, then you may have to keep the
car in first with clutch disengaged. Otherwise, you lose a couple of
seconds when the light turns green, and receive honking horns behind you.
Click to expand...

In that way, I'm glad in my country the light turns yellow first, before
turning green, not just red straight to green like it is in the US.

Wonder if it has to do with the fact that most cars in the US have
historically been automatics so they don't need that "get ready" stage as
opposed to Europe, where most are stickshifts.

Cheers,

Pete
 
Thanks guys for your contributions.
I'll put it in neutral.
You eager-beavers, anxious to blast off on the green light could end up
T-boned by some idiot trying to beat their red light...................

Andy I.
 
Rob Guenther said:
What about putting it into say, third gear from fourth to slow down in bad
weather.
Click to expand...

That puts wear on the 3rd syncro, but then so does driving, there's no
reason not to do it, but no reason to do it if you don't need to either.
 
brackenburn said:
Thanks guys for your contributions.
I'll put it in neutral.
You eager-beavers, anxious to blast off on the green light could end up
T-boned by some idiot trying to beat their red light...................

Andy I.
Click to expand...

Well it's a given that you should look to see if the oncomming traffic is
actually stopping before gunning it through the intersection.
 
Pete said:
you.

In that way, I'm glad in my country the light turns yellow first, before
turning green, not just red straight to green like it is in the US.

Wonder if it has to do with the fact that most cars in the US have
historically been automatics so they don't need that "get ready" stage as
opposed to Europe, where most are stickshifts.

Cheers,

Pete
Click to expand...

I think it's just a different opinion of how it should work when the system
was first designed. The yellow after red is a decent idea, but nobody
thought of it at the time or didn't think it was nessesary, and beyond that
it became a standard, if some lights did it and some didn't things would be
a mess. The system was decided way back before automatic transmissions were
around.
 
Yah, I only really do it when I see a stoplight far away, and the revs in
4th drop below 2000rpm. I try to match revs, and I usually can't even feel
the gear engage, so I'm thinking I am not doing all that much damage.
 
You can look both ways with the clutch pushed in, and car in first ready to
go ;-).
 
Where I live in Canada the yellow light is pretty long for the cross
traffic, then there is their red. Then there is a slight delay before we get
the green. Perhaps it is all similar in actual timings. Doesn't seem to be
an overly problematic system over here as far as traffic lights go, except
the synchronization of lights in certain areas is bad, or non existant...
some places have it quite good tho, my route to work in the morning is a
particularly well engineered stretch for carrying many cars.

Most people don't try to gun it right at the green light either, most take a
look at traffic before heading out... especially in Toronto... lots and lots
of red light runners.
 
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