Compare Maint of 240 vs. '95 960

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Pat Quadlander

I've driven 140 and 240 models since '73, and currently drive a '91 240 with
150,000 miles. I do most of the frequent maintenance, and use a Volvo shop
for special work. I've only had a few repairs costing more than $300 (new
AC $1100, all new shocks/joints/bushings $800, time belt routine, AMM
replace), plus all the more frequent maintenance nickels and dimes (oil
change, brake pads, spark plugs/wires, battery, etc.). In other words,
140/240 series is more economical than even the oriental cost-busters, plus
much more comfortable to drive.

My teenage daughter may be in line to get the 240, if I find a replacement.
Every now and then, I see 940s and 960s that are selling well below $5,000.
I know the 940 drive train is essentially the same as the 240, or I could
consider a 940T turbo for some extra performance and some extra maintenance
headache. Or, for a lot more luxury, look at a 960. I hear mixed opinions
about the 960, especially the new-fangled 6 cylinder engine, but also the
more frequent and more expensive repairs of all the luxury "improvements".

Am I crazy to want and trade my horse-and-buggy 240 for a complicated 960
(1994 or later)? I'm worried that I won't be able to do my own basic
maintenance. E.g., most of us know how to clean and repair a failing window
switch on the 240 for free, but this may be a $200 dealer repair on the 960?
If my average annual maintenance costs sky rocket over $1,500 per year, then
I'm less interested.

What's your opinion about the comparison of 240 to 960? Please include some
background (what are you currently driving/have driven), plus specific
model/year and mileage info of any known good or bad experience.

Thanks,
Pat Q
 
Pat Quadlander said:
I've driven 140 and 240 models since '73, and currently drive a '91 240 with
150,000 miles. I do most of the frequent maintenance, and use a Volvo shop
for special work. I've only had a few repairs costing more than $300 (new
AC $1100, all new shocks/joints/bushings $800, time belt routine, AMM
replace), plus all the more frequent maintenance nickels and dimes (oil
change, brake pads, spark plugs/wires, battery, etc.). In other words,
140/240 series is more economical than even the oriental cost-busters, plus
much more comfortable to drive.

My teenage daughter may be in line to get the 240, if I find a replacement.
Every now and then, I see 940s and 960s that are selling well below $5,000.
I know the 940 drive train is essentially the same as the 240, or I could
consider a 940T turbo for some extra performance and some extra maintenance
headache. Or, for a lot more luxury, look at a 960. I hear mixed opinions
about the 960, especially the new-fangled 6 cylinder engine, but also the
more frequent and more expensive repairs of all the luxury "improvements".

Am I crazy to want and trade my horse-and-buggy 240 for a complicated 960
(1994 or later)? I'm worried that I won't be able to do my own basic
maintenance. E.g., most of us know how to clean and repair a failing window
switch on the 240 for free, but this may be a $200 dealer repair on the 960?
If my average annual maintenance costs sky rocket over $1,500 per year, then
I'm less interested.

What's your opinion about the comparison of 240 to 960? Please include some
background (what are you currently driving/have driven), plus specific
model/year and mileage info of any known good or bad experience.

Thanks,
Pat Q
Click to expand...


The 960 is a nicer car, and not horrible to maintain, but it's not nearly as
forgiving as a 240 and will need more meticulous maintenance. A 940 Turbo
will be somewhere in between the two in that respect.
 
We've had a 960 since 1993. Other than standard "nickle and dime" stuff that
you listed, we've replace a brake caliper and a steering rack, and just this
year a pipe for our A/C system... The radio did die in this car but for 40
bucks or so at a scrap yard you can find one from an 850/960.

The switchgear isn't a real step up up from say a 740 - rocker switches for
the windows, and sunroof... They look user serviceable, tho they haven't
failed on our car.

The "newfangled" I-6 engine hasn't given us any trouble except some
shuddering when starting up... this went away on its own after a good long
drive with the car.

Our 960 is about to hit 160K Kms, so she's still pretty young ;-). We're
looking at XC70's each time we head to the dealer, but aside from some
specific questions and some dreaming we haven't seriously considered to
actually buy one in the near future.... The 960's got basically everything
the XC70 does, minus a CD player and dual zone climate, and AWD.

The only thing bad about this car I find is when I have to fill it up... I
typically drive a VW TDI (55L of diesel).... so filling the 20L larger tank
with premium gasoline at less KMs then my Golf would have got me, even tho
the tank is smaller is kind of a downer... but it's still better then SUVs.
It will do less than 9L per 100Kms on the highway (pure highway with the
engine still warm at fill up my dad got 7.54L per 100kms with the cruise on
for 254kms).

Talking to my father it seems he felt our 240's and 740's we're much more
problematic then this 960, and he only kept the 240's at a max of 9 years (2
of them for only 2 years) then 4-5 year intervals for our 2 740's.... So it
must say something about how good the 960 is. (all cars bough new - one as a
showroom demo - the last 240, the 9 year car)
 
Keep the 240, Drive it until the wheels fall off, then
replace them & start over. Every now and then a make &
model come out that seems timeless. The 240 is one of
those. You can forget finding a new auto that you can do
your own maintenance on. Though with EIC plugs foul less,
in many new vehicles you can't reach some of the plugs to
replace them.

A friend just gave me a 1988 240. I have tuned it up,
changed the hoses and belts. Next the struts, finally it
will be reupholstered & painted. It drives great & with gas
headed for $2+/gallon, I am happy to drive my little 4 banger.

Forres McGraw
 
It drives great & with gas
headed for $2+/gallon, I am happy to drive my little 4 banger.
Click to expand...

The alloy-block modular engines used in Volvo's since 1991 are more
powerful, and yet are as economical (if not more so) than red-block
engines. Fuel prices are not a good reason to stay with a 240.
 
Yup, our 201hp 960 is slightly worse in town then the old 153hp 740 GLE 16V
and 114hp 740 GLE we had before, but on the highway it utterly blows them
away.... and in town if you feather it you can do just as good if not better
now that the old engine has been finely broken in and tuned up. Plus you get
more power to boot... much more power.
 
drive a 200 series on a 6 hour drive, then do it in a 900
series...IMHO there is a world of difference in comfort, and a host of
"little things" that were improved over the years....
 
drive a 200 series on a 6 hour drive, then do it in a 900
series...IMHO there is a world of difference in comfort, and a host of
"little things" that were improved over the years....
Click to expand...

Yeah, in the 240s the road noise will get you (so you put some additional
sound proofing material).

On the 900s and 700s every time you hit a small bump the interior squeaks
and rattles. Every time you take a turn something squeaks, and this you
can't fix.

I'll take a 245 with the late style tailgate and windshield, add some
additional sound proofing.. any day over a 760.

And yes, the seats in my 760 feel significantly more comfortable.. and the
gearing is more tolerable.. but it's still a very noisy car.
 
Alex Zepeda said:
Yeah, in the 240s the road noise will get you (so you put some additional
sound proofing material).

On the 900s and 700s every time you hit a small bump the interior squeaks
and rattles. Every time you take a turn something squeaks, and this you
can't fix.

I'll take a 245 with the late style tailgate and windshield, add some
additional sound proofing.. any day over a 760.

And yes, the seats in my 760 feel significantly more comfortable.. and the
gearing is more tolerable.. but it's still a very noisy car.
Click to expand...


I had a lot of squeaks and rattles in my 740, by now I've tracked down and
eliminated most all of them though, overall it's much quieter than my 240
(which also has some squeaks and rattles) and that's with 260k on it. Both
very good cars, but the 740 is definitly the preference for long distance
drives, 240 is a lot more fun to drive and has that unique 240 feel to it.
 
Yeah, in the 240s the road noise will get you (so you put some additional
sound proofing material).
Click to expand...

Every time I change the tyres on a car, I am surprised at the effect
that different makes of tyre have on road noise. It seems to me that
this can be the biggest improvement you can make, here, yet if you ask
for a 'quiet' tyre, very few tyre fitters have any knowledge about it.
On the 900s and 700s every time you hit a small bump the interior squeaks
and rattles. Every time you take a turn something squeaks, and this you
can't fix.
Click to expand...

I was disparing of the rattles in my 740, but then I found that
adjusting and greasing the locating tabs at each side of the tailgate
turned my rattler into a limousine. It's easy to do, too. 700s are no
worse than 200s.

--

Stewart Hargrave


For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name
 
if your looking for low maintenance, and a little more comfort the 940 is a
good compromise between the two, my 92 960 was a nice car to drive, but the
transmission was not that great if your used to the predictable tranny in the
240, the 960 has a lock up converter type tranny,like you would find in a
general motors car, mine was on its 2nd tranny in 200,000 miles,and this one
was starting to act up,the converter would stay locked when you came to a stop
and the car would shudder ,the steering rack had a vibration at low speed
turns,the drivers seat developed a mind of its own and would recline all the
way back while driving,and the a/c comp. would cut off, but if you turned the
car off and restarted it it would work normally again, and if you don't keep up
with the frequent timing belt changes, the expensive inline 6 engine is toast.
on the other hand i've driven my '88 240 300,000 miles on the original
drivetrain, with very little maintenance, the 940 has the same engine and
tranny as the 240, so thats what i would go for if the 240 ever dies, or
another 240 in nice condition.
 
I was disparing of the rattles in my 740, but then I found that adjusting
and greasing the locating tabs at each side of the tailgate turned my
rattler into a limousine. It's easy to do, too.
Click to expand...

The tailgate rattles are a whole 'nother problem. Most of the noise I'm
getting right now is from the glove box (and its extremely cheesy mounting).

My car has a whole lot of self tapping screws used to fasten stuff
together. I imagine Volvo saved a bundle, but also ensured stuff won't
fit back together too well if you ever have to take it apart.
700s are no worse than 200s.
Click to expand...

Sure. The 200s never had any big heavy decorative trim panel mounted with
cheap plastic bits prone to eroding the holes in the cheap plastic trim.

The brakes are my second pet peeve.

All in all I have yet to see a 240 that squeaks quite as badly as most of
the 700s I've been in.
 
~^ beancounter ~^ said:
drive a 200 series on a 6 hour drive, then do it in a 900
series...IMHO there is a world of difference in comfort, and a host of
"little things" that were improved over the years....
Click to expand...
And with all those improvements came more things to go wrong with __I
prefer my little 240's not to mention that Volvo owners seem toi feel
their 700 800 900 series hold so much more value, but do they in reality?
I can say from experience that at local lessor expensive than dealer
servicing shops it's more than likely an average tech can diagnose these
240's but not the 700's and up.
 
The tailgate rattles are a whole 'nother problem.
Click to expand...

The fix was easy and permanent - not a problem at all. But locating
the source of the noise was a challenge. Given that the car was over
12 years old when the tailgate started to rattle, I don't feel too
annoyed with Volvo about it.
Most of the noise I'm
getting right now is from the glove box (and its extremely cheesy mounting).
Click to expand...

Never had any problems here. But now you mention it, in one of my
200s, the vanity mirror in the glovebox lid used to buzz at a certain
speed.
My car has a whole lot of self tapping screws used to fasten stuff
together. I imagine Volvo saved a bundle, but also ensured stuff won't
fit back together too well if you ever have to take it apart.


Sure. The 200s never had any big heavy decorative trim panel mounted with
cheap plastic bits prone to eroding the holes in the cheap plastic trim.
Click to expand...

The 700s have several acres more plastic than the 200s, and when I
first got a 740 I got the distinct impression that it was a flimsier
car. But after a while this feeling changed. It is more 'plasticy'
inside and some of the trim leaves a bit to be desired[1], but the
overall quality is superior.

At over 17 years old, this is now the oldest car I've ever owned (by
several years), and despite living outside in the street in British
weather and being used as a hack, it is also the one in best
condition. I'm dead impressed with that. Barring accidents I expect to
be still driving a decent car when it is in its twenties.

It depends what you want. My priority is a car that will not rust away
as you watch it and doesn't need constant maintenance; I can live with
the odd broken trim clip.
The brakes are my second pet peeve.
Click to expand...

In what way? You mean they rattle? I had that once, but I can't
remember which car. The cause was a deformed locating spring, or clip,
that stops the pads rattling about in the caliper.
All in all I have yet to see a 240 that squeaks quite as badly as most of
the 700s I've been in.
Click to expand...

Apart from an occasional clunk from a front suspension bushing that
needs changing, I genuinely do not have any rattles, squeaks or other
such noises. The loudest noise at modest speed is road noise.

[1] A couple of plastic panels in the luggage area don't clip together
properly any more; the freshair vent by the drivers feet has lost its
spring; the vent under the steering wheel has lost its flap; the
headlining seems to be made of damp tissue paper (just look at it hard
and it tears) - that's about it. It would be acceptable on many cars
half the age of this one.
--

Stewart Hargrave


For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name
 
they both (240's & 9 series) are good cars, and have their
"moments"...for me, when driving on 2 lane highways around
colorado & wyoming, sometimes winter, sometimes 18 wheelers
passing on 2 lane roads...while we are both coming at eachother
and passing @ over 100mph (65x2) the 93 940t feels a bit more
stable than my 86 240 did...the tires on the 940 are wider..
suspension feels a bit tighter and more solid...drive and own both
for a spell...you won't pay much for them, and you will be able
to re sell them for aprox what you pay for them...as long as one
dosen't wreck, of have any major mech problems...i would get a 240 to
run around town...but i would perfer a 940/960 to cruse the
interstates and highways at speeds over 70mph...on yea, my 86 240
didn't quite have the air
bags yet...the 900 series do...as well as the newer 240's...i did have
a 93 240 wagon, that was a nice car, had the bags, felt stable on the
highway, and towed a nice load...it felt smaller in the cockpit area
than the 900 series...

good luck !! i doubt you will go wrone w/either mdl...
 
the 93 940t feels a bit more
stable than my 86 240 did
Click to expand...

One thing the 240 was famous for was its body lean. If you held your
hands firmly on the steering wheel you wouldn't change direction, but
the body lean would give you a sensation of being blown all over the
road.

I have no experience with the 700 & 900 series, but the 850s were much
more stable.
 
The fix was easy and permanent - not a problem at all. But locating the
source of the noise was a challenge. Given that the car was over 12 years
old when the tailgate started to rattle, I don't feel too annoyed with
Volvo about it.
Click to expand...

In my case I bought the IPD kit, and installed it only to have the plastic
mounting clips bend enough to allow some rattling.
Never had any problems here. But now you mention it, in one of my 200s,
the vanity mirror in the glovebox lid used to buzz at a certain speed.
Click to expand...

The 240s use 8 (self tapping) screws, the new style 760 has two screws and
two delicate tabs holding the glove box in. On the bottom there's a
reinforcing bar or something for the kick panel to mount to. It's gone on
mine because the screws have lodged themselves in the plastic (yay for
self tapping screws in plastic) and broken the bar upon their removal.
The 700s have several acres more plastic than the 200s, and when I first
got a 740 I got the distinct impression that it was a flimsier car. But
after a while this feeling changed. It is more 'plasticy' inside and
some of the trim leaves a bit to be desired[1], but the overall quality
is superior.
Click to expand...

What about the center console? That's a lovely piece of engineering.
Again, self tapping screws holding the tray into the console.

What about the door? The door pulls that pull off, the junk window
regulators, the various bits inside the door as well. There's a little
clip that holds the wires going to the door reflector. Nice design,
you're supposed to force it on and off, until the teeny plastic piece
breaks. Or the door trim around the window switches? The one that breaks
and pulls out really easily as you're trying to close the door. The whole
thing is held under tension by an easy to break clip.
It depends what you want. My priority is a car that will not rust away
as you watch it and doesn't need constant maintenance; I can live with
the odd broken trim clip.
Click to expand...

Both my 240s had more rust than my 760 does, sure. None were structural
however. If I were to have fixed the broken seals, they would have stayed
rust free for a while. I have yet to see a 240 with a cracked engine
crossmember.

In general, I don't feel that my 760 needs more (engine) maintenance than
an LH-Jetronic equipped 240 would need. Except that the basic maintenance
bits are more expensive for the 760 (distributor cap, rotor, wires, don't
even start on the brake or suspension bits).
In what way? You mean they rattle? I had that once, but I can't remember
which car. The cause was a deformed locating spring, or clip, that stops
the pads rattling about in the caliper.
Click to expand...

In the way that they lend themselves to poor pedal feel, warped rotors,
and increased vigilance (floating calipers suck). If you're not lubing
the sliding pins on a regular basis, they will seize and the end result
will be warped rotors.
 
What about the center console? That's a lovely piece of engineering.
Again, self tapping screws holding the tray into the console.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but it works OK on mine. I mean just how often are you taking
things apart on your car? I'm agree with you that the trim is not as
good on the 700s as on the 200s.
What about the door? The door pulls that pull off, the junk window
regulators, the various bits inside the door as well. There's a little
clip that holds the wires going to the door reflector. Nice design,
you're supposed to force it on and off, until the teeny plastic piece
breaks. Or the door trim around the window switches? The one that breaks
and pulls out really easily as you're trying to close the door. The whole
thing is held under tension by an easy to break clip.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I just don't recognise this description. The map pockets
in the doors are way too flimsy, but nothing else rings true to my
experience of my 740. I've had my driver's door apart two or three
times, and everything still fits together well. No dodgy switches or
trim; it's fine.
Both my 240s had more rust than my 760 does, sure. None were structural
however. If I were to have fixed the broken seals, they would have stayed
rust free for a while. I have yet to see a 240 with a cracked engine
crossmember.
Click to expand...

I've never seen any car with a cracked engine crossmember. But all my
200s were rust bugs, and that is what killed them off in the end. Even
rust that isn't structural will eventually do for a car. The 700s are
not 100% rust free, but they represent a major step forward in keeping
it under control.
In the way that they lend themselves to poor pedal feel, warped rotors,
and increased vigilance (floating calipers suck). If you're not lubing
the sliding pins on a regular basis, they will seize and the end result
will be warped rotors.
Click to expand...

I've heard a lot about warped disks, but never had that problem
myself. Lubing the sliding pins is just part of routine maintenance,
and arguably easier than maintaining two extra pistons. But yes, the
brakes do give the impression of being made out of plywood (but then I
though that about my 200s, too).

I'm not trying to decry the 200s, I had some excellent service from
several of them. I was sceptical about a 700 to begin with, but after
a while, I became impressed with it, and now that it is as old as it
is and still in modest condition, doubly so.

--

Stewart Hargrave


For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name
 
Yeah, but it works OK on mine. I mean just how often are you taking things
apart on your car? I'm agree with you that the trim is not as good on the
700s as on the 200s.
Click to expand...

Admittedly not very often, but it is nice to clean stuff out, and to paint
it, etc. I would hate to have to take it apart more than once.
I'm sorry but I just don't recognise this description. The map pockets in
the doors are way too flimsy, but nothing else rings true to my experience
of my 740. I've had my driver's door apart two or three times, and
everything still fits together well. No dodgy switches or trim; it's fine.
Click to expand...

The window regulators are a popular enough failure to warrant a brickboard
FAQ entry or two. Indeed the driver's window regulator on my wagon was
replaced a few years back and has failed already. The symptoms are that
the window doesn't properly seal in one corner. This makes for a whole
lot of excess wind noise.

The decorative trim under the power window switches is my favorite tho.
It's something you will have to pull at one point or another (as the
window switches themselves will gum up, just like on any other car).

When you pull the door apart, just make sure to never ever pull the
fabric/carpet insert out. The fasteners are a one time use only item
(again this just screams CHEAP). My problem with is that there are so
many one time use fasteners in the interior, not necessarily the quality
of many of the materials. At least I could put the 240's interior back
together.
I've never seen any car with a cracked engine crossmember. But all my
200s were rust bugs, and that is what killed them off in the end. Even
rust that isn't structural will eventually do for a car. The 700s are
not 100% rust free, but they represent a major step forward in keeping
it under control.
Click to expand...

I thought there was a brickboard FAQ entry as well:

<http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/700_900_problems.htm>

I haven't inspected my wagon, but I've seen such a crack on a friend's
88 764T.
I've heard a lot about warped disks, but never had that problem myself.
Lubing the sliding pins is just part of routine maintenance, and
arguably easier than maintaining two extra pistons. But yes, the brakes
do give the impression of being made out of plywood (but then I though
that about my 200s, too).
Click to expand...

How is removing the the calipers to lube the pins and possibly replace a
couple of extra seals easier? The only time the extra calipers should
become more of a maintenance hassle is if you ever have to rebuild them
yourself. However, professionally rebuilt calipers are so cheap, and
calipers last so long with proper maintenance... I just don't see it.

Also, make sure to check the strut rod bushings for wear. They're easy
enough to replace.. but can also lead to warped rotors if you let em go
for too long.
I'm not trying to decry the 200s, I had some excellent service from
several of them. I was sceptical about a 700 to begin with, but after a
while, I became impressed with it, and now that it is as old as it is
and still in modest condition, doubly so.
Click to expand...

The 700 is in many ways an improvement. The brakes and interior are, IMO,
the notable exceptions.
 
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