Did Jiffy Lube Kill my 240 Tranny?

  • Thread starter Thread starter naverillsn001
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naverillsn001

I have a 1984 240 DL automatic with 190,000. The tranny has always shifted
smoothly, except for not going into reverse when hot.

Jiffy Lube flushed and replaced the fluid the other day... A few miles
after leaving JL, the tranny started shuddering... Soon it barely worked
at all, running for a few hundred feet and then disengaging.. I discovered
it was overfull... I siphoned off the excess, but still no go. Had it towed
to a trans guy... $1700 rebuild underway (including adding an aftermarket
cooler).

SO... Should I bitch at Jiffy Lube, or should I accept that on a tranny
this old there was a high likelihood that changing the fluid would screw
it up, and it's not their fault?
 
naverillsn001 said:
Jiffy Lube flushed and replaced the fluid the other day... A few miles
after leaving JL, the tranny started shuddering... Soon it barely
worked at all, running for a few hundred feet and then disengaging.. I
discovered it was overfull... I siphoned off the excess, but still no
go. Had it towed to a trans guy... $1700 rebuild underway (including
adding an aftermarket cooler).

SO... Should I bitch at Jiffy Lube, or should I accept that on a
tranny this old there was a high likelihood that changing the fluid
would screw it up, and it's not their fault?
Click to expand...

Given that it was overfilled - which is a dimbulb thing to do and
indicates that the tech didn't quite understand how to properly fill an
automatic transmission - I might question whether they got the right type
of fluid in it. What type is recommended? I've had arguments with Jiffy
Lube types about topping up my Odyssey's transmission - they just INSIST
that their generic stuff is fine, while (1) Odysseys have a known history
of tranny failures for mysterious reasons, possibly related to improper
fluid; and (2) Honda very sternly recommends only Hondamatic fluid, no
substitutes.

Most quick-lube places are staffed by idiots who go through generic moves
on every vehicle, no matter what continent or era it comes from. So yeah,
I'd suspect that JiffyLube putzed something. Did your tranny guy give you
any feedback on the fluid or the condition of the tranny?

On the other hand - even Volvos wear out, and 190k ain't young. If you'd
been having troubles with it, even trivial ones, it could well be that
even a proper flushing and fluid change would have snapped the threads
holding your band and clutch linings on.

Unless you can prove the wrong fluid was put in, and even then I'd say
that 190k would trump any such claim, you're not likely to get any
acknowledgement or compensation from JL.
 
GO AFTER THEM IT HAS TO BE WORTH A TRY.

James Gifford said:
Given that it was overfilled - which is a dimbulb thing to do and
indicates that the tech didn't quite understand how to properly fill an
automatic transmission - I might question whether they got the right type
of fluid in it. What type is recommended? I've had arguments with Jiffy
Lube types about topping up my Odyssey's transmission - they just INSIST
that their generic stuff is fine, while (1) Odysseys have a known history
of tranny failures for mysterious reasons, possibly related to improper
fluid; and (2) Honda very sternly recommends only Hondamatic fluid, no
substitutes.

Most quick-lube places are staffed by idiots who go through generic moves
on every vehicle, no matter what continent or era it comes from. So yeah,
I'd suspect that JiffyLube putzed something. Did your tranny guy give you
any feedback on the fluid or the condition of the tranny?

On the other hand - even Volvos wear out, and 190k ain't young. If you'd
been having troubles with it, even trivial ones, it could well be that
even a proper flushing and fluid change would have snapped the threads
holding your band and clutch linings on.

Unless you can prove the wrong fluid was put in, and even then I'd say
that 190k would trump any such claim, you're not likely to get any
acknowledgement or compensation from JL.
Click to expand...
 
do a little research.
You might find (some of) the manufacturers of the equipment used for flushing
trannies, etc. recommend NOT to flush "high mileage" vehicles.
In which case, you would have an argument that the equipment wasn't used per
the manufacturers instructions.
ymmv...
 
They killed my wife's '91 Toyota Celica - 195k on the engine, did an oil
change, and they didn't put the cap back on... While they never admitted
guilt, they did replace the engine (which doesn't legally admit guilt, but
sure looks like it from my position!).

So I'd approach them on it. Take it up the line quickly - don't mess with
the shop manager for too long. The guy who fixing it can be a good resource
on this, too. We had the Celica looked at, and the guy was very convinced
they hadn't screwed the cap back on. For the actual engine replacement,
they wanted to use the shop of their choice (who looked like they did a good
25% of their business on Jiffy Lube "mistakes"), but I was able to check
them out independently, and was comfortable with them.

And no, I haven't been back since. I wouldn't stop there to use the
restroom, from the way they acted through the process. But we did get the
engine replaced.
 
Nick Cassimatis said:
They killed my wife's '91 Toyota Celica - 195k on the engine, did an
oil change, and they didn't put the cap back on... While they never
admitted guilt, they did replace the engine (which doesn't legally
admit guilt, but sure looks like it from my position!).
Click to expand...

I should add that I've never had any trouble with engine service, but the
idiots at a JL did once putz up my tire pressures something unbelievable.
Van drove funny on the way home, so I checked: 44, 31, 41 and 48 psi. They
had been within a smidge of 35 each when I went in. Had I driven very long
at freeway speeds, either of those two high ones could have blown; the
differential made the van very wobbly and unstable as well, even on the
surface streets I drove home.

I've never figured that one out. I've also never been back. There's an indy
shop nearby for oil and an indy Honda shop for more advanced stuff, both of
whom I trust.
 
naverillsn001 said:
I have a 1984 240 DL automatic with 190,000. The tranny has always shifted
smoothly, except for not going into reverse when hot.

Jiffy Lube flushed and replaced the fluid the other day... A few miles
after leaving JL, the tranny started shuddering... Soon it barely worked
at all, running for a few hundred feet and then disengaging.. I discovered
it was overfull... I siphoned off the excess, but still no go. Had it
towed
to a trans guy... $1700 rebuild underway (including adding an aftermarket
cooler).

SO... Should I bitch at Jiffy Lube, or should I accept that on a tranny
this old there was a high likelihood that changing the fluid would screw
it up, and it's not their fault?
Click to expand...
Is that a ZF transmission, the type with PN123D shifting, or an AW with the
PRN12D and separate overdrive? The ZF is known to be very intolerant of
revving in neutral - IIRC 2000 rpm for 30 seconds is the limit. If it's a ZF
and they were revving it anytime during the fluid change they probably
burned up the tranny.

Mike
 
James Gifford said:
Given that it was overfilled - which is a dimbulb thing to do and
indicates that the tech didn't quite understand how to properly fill an
automatic transmission - I might question whether they got the right type
of fluid in it. What type is recommended? I've had arguments with Jiffy
Lube types about topping up my Odyssey's transmission - they just INSIST
that their generic stuff is fine, while (1) Odysseys have a known history
of tranny failures for mysterious reasons, possibly related to improper
fluid; and (2) Honda very sternly recommends only Hondamatic fluid, no
substitutes.
Click to expand...


I would say it's highly likely they put the wrong fluid in it, it's
confusing enough for even mechanically inclined people as Volvo changed
fluid types at some point in the early 80's, haven't kept up on the slushbox
specs since I no longer have to deal with any of them but if they put the
wrong fluid in it very well could have killed it. I'd definitly go after
them since it was working fine before that, you might have to have the
tranny shop open it up and determine the cause of failure though.
 
Michael Pardee said:
Is that a ZF transmission, the type with PN123D shifting, or an AW with the
PRN12D and separate overdrive? The ZF is known to be very intolerant of
revving in neutral - IIRC 2000 rpm for 30 seconds is the limit. If it's a ZF
and they were revving it anytime during the fluid change they probably
burned up the tranny.

Mike
Click to expand...

No it's not a ZF, they were never used in 240s, at least not in north
america.
 
James Gifford said:
I should add that I've never had any trouble with engine service, but the
idiots at a JL did once putz up my tire pressures something unbelievable.
Van drove funny on the way home, so I checked: 44, 31, 41 and 48 psi. They
had been within a smidge of 35 each when I went in. Had I driven very long
at freeway speeds, either of those two high ones could have blown; the
differential made the van very wobbly and unstable as well, even on the
surface streets I drove home.
Click to expand...
I'd worry about the 48 pound one but even more if it was under inflated by
the same amount. You'd have to worry about a place called Jiffylube though.
 
Go after them. They are responsible, no matter what the lube jockeys tell
you, to some degree. Having an invoice and then catastrophic failure right
afterwards is great evidence. If you can't afford/get a lawyer, at least see
a para-legal (known good one). Most are affiliated with a lawyer if they do
not practice right in a lawyer's building.
Keep in mind what the "legalise" says on any companies statement/invoice
means squat if it is contrary to your state's legal rights in place. GET A
LEGAL OPINION !!

Cheers,
 
wrench_head said:
Go after them. They are responsible, no matter what the lube jockeys tell
you, to some degree. Having an invoice and then catastrophic failure right
afterwards is great evidence. If you can't afford/get a lawyer, at least see
a para-legal (known good one). Most are affiliated with a lawyer if they do
not practice right in a lawyer's building.
Keep in mind what the "legalise" says on any companies statement/invoice
means squat if it is contrary to your state's legal rights in place. GET A
LEGAL OPINION !!
Click to expand...
I agree. Another of those instances where knowledge of what else might have
gone wrong can be an impediment.
 
a trans service @ 190 k miles is not really recommended due to old fluid
properties and new fluid properties ..new transmission fluid is highly
cleansing and can actually cause a failure if trans has already exhibited
problems.... not jiffylubes fault just old trans.ASE certified transmission
tech...dont buy a new computer for your car repair yours ask me for info
[email protected]
 
naverillsn001 said:
I have a 1984 240 DL automatic with 190,000. The tranny has always shifted
smoothly, except for not going into reverse when hot.

Jiffy Lube flushed and replaced the fluid the other day... A few miles
after leaving JL, the tranny started shuddering... Soon it barely worked
at all, running for a few hundred feet and then disengaging.. I discovered
it was overfull... I siphoned off the excess, but still no go. Had it
towed
to a trans guy... $1700 rebuild underway (including adding an aftermarket
cooler).
Click to expand...

Why oh Why people go to those places is a mystery to me.

Probably the transmission was on it's way out anyway, 190k on one of those
is certainly within the normal expected failure range, especially for a 20
year old car.

Automatic flushes are not a good idea on high mileage transmissions. Often
they bust loose deposits which would be better left alone.

I doubt you will get anywhere bitching at JL.

John
 
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