freon replacement for '90 Volvo GL? - - help a poor girl

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sue sanchez

I inherited a '90 Volvo GL. It runs ok however the air conditioner
puts out no cold air at all. Since it's a '90, I assume it uses R12
freon. How much should I expect to be charged for R12 to refill the
system, assuming it's empty?

Also, I hear one can get R12 in Tijuana cheap. Anyone know if this is
true and an honest place to have it done? I've been to TJ many times
and I know there are lots of honest shops, but it's not so easy to
find one.

Alternately, I've seen R-134a replacement kits for about $40. I
understand they are less than an ideal solution but do they work at
all?

Thanks in advance.

Sue
 
I would check at a local shop to see which refrigerant it really takes.
R-12 can be as much as $40.00 a quart the last time that I checked on my
old 89 BMW. It should probobly take between 2-4 quarts to recharge you're
system. Good luck.
 
I inherited a '90 Volvo GL. It runs ok however the air conditioner puts
out no cold air at all. Since it's a '90, I assume it uses R12 freon.
Click to expand...

That is correct, it would have been filled with R12 from the factory.
How much should I expect to be charged for R12 to refill the system,
assuming it's empty?
Click to expand...

You don't just refill it, unless you like wasting money. You find the
source of the leak, fix it, and then look at your A/C charge-up options.
Also, I hear one can get R12 in Tijuana cheap.
Click to expand...

Sure, if you don't mind taking the risk that it's not really R12. Could be
propane. Could be natural gas. Either will cause cold-ish air to come out
of the vents and turn your car into a time bomb without a "time remaining"
display.
Alternately, I've seen R-134a replacement kits for about $40.
Click to expand...

Known as "instant compressor death". Volvo offers an R134a retrofit kit
for the 240s. It includes not only all the components needed to ensure
chemical compatibility so the compressor doesn't die and the system
doesn't leak dry in weeks, but also the hard parts to make it worth your
while so the less-efficient R134a doesn't reduce this already-weak A/C
system's performance to uselessness. I see these kits go by on Ebay fairly
often.
understand they are less than an ideal solution but do they work at
all?
Click to expand...

Yes -- the $40 kits work to make sure you will shortly have to make much
more extensive and expensive system repairs.

DS
 
Evacuate the system then charge it with 134.You can put 134 in on top of
R-12. It still works. At less than $3 a pound you can recharge it many times
before you reach the cost of replacing a single O-ring at a shop. If a
recharge lasts 2 or 3 months do it that way. If it leaks out in a day or a
few weeks then you have what we call a BIG hole. Then you need a repair.
 
Evacuate the system then charge it with 134.You can put 134 in on top of
R-12.
Click to expand...

You canNOT. The two refrigerants and their oils do not mix, R12 O-rings do
not seal R134a, R12 filter-dryers are not compatible with R134a, and doing
this is not only illegal, but also extremely stupid, for it guarantees no
shop will touch your A/C system without hefty surcharges -- if
they'll touch it at all -- *WHEN* this mix destroys it.

DS
 
Daniel J. Stern said:
You canNOT. The two refrigerants and their oils do not mix, R12 O-rings do
not seal R134a, R12 filter-dryers are not compatible with R134a, and doing
this is not only illegal, but also extremely stupid, for it guarantees no
shop will touch your A/C system without hefty surcharges -- if
they'll touch it at all -- *WHEN* this mix destroys it.

DS
Click to expand...

Wow! Now I don't feel so bad about not getting any replies to my two
recent posts! Could have gotten one like THAT!
;-)


from Randy & Valerie
__ __
\ \ / /
\ \/ /
\__/olvo
1993 960
 
Daniel J. Stern said:
You canNOT. The two refrigerants and their oils do not mix, R12 O-rings do
not seal R134a, R12 filter-dryers are not compatible with R134a, and doing
this is not only illegal, but also extremely stupid, for it guarantees no
shop will touch your A/C system without hefty surcharges -- if
they'll touch it at all -- *WHEN* this mix destroys it.

DS
Click to expand...

It is however fairly easy to convert to R134a using Volvo's kit, I
procrastinated for about 2 years with my 740 then finally made the plunge
and was amazed how smoothly it went.
 
I inherited a '90 Volvo GL. It runs ok however the air conditioner
puts out no cold air at all. Since it's a '90, I assume it uses R12
freon. How much should I expect to be charged for R12 to refill the
system, assuming it's empty?
Click to expand...

I just had mine converted to R134a for $175, which included the cost of the
actual Volvo conversion kit. It was actually CHEAPER than having it charged
back up with R12, since freon is soooo expensive.

-jeff
 
I speak from experience. I Have been doing it since 134 came out. It does
work. I have factory training with Volvo and BMW and they have no problems
with this. The EPA spread a lot of myths about the conversion at first and
have been retracting statments ever since.
 
Huh? How the hell do you recover the refrigerant when it's all mixed
together?

nate
 
Not talking about recovering it Nate. Obviously a lot of people
misunderstood the question and the reply. The info was to help those who
can't afford an expensive repair right away. At less than $3 a lb. it is
cheaper to keep recharging it if it lasts a few months before you have to do
it again. The original post was help a poor girl.
That was my intention.
 
Thank you for all your helpful advice. I decided to bite the bullet
and get the system serviced and re-filled with R12 if there were not
significant leaks.

To my surprise, the service center found no leaks in the system and
while worn, still servicable. It was filled with R12 at a
firefighter's dicount of $2 an ounce and the total bill was less than
$75.

My guess is that the former owner simply never had the system
re-filled and the original R12 just slowly leaked out or evaporated.

Thanks again for your kind help.
 
The local Volvo dealer recently quoted over $500.00 to convert my 740 Turbo
to R134a.
I was floored! I'd rather sweat like a pig than pay rip-off prices for a
simple conversion job.
I would like to use the factory approved Volvo kit but can't stomoch this
form of daylight robbery the dealer wants to inflict on me. Are there any
alternatives?
 
Jeffrey said:
The local Volvo dealer recently quoted over $500.00 to convert my 740 Turbo
to R134a.
I was floored! I'd rather sweat like a pig than pay rip-off prices for a
simple conversion job.
I would like to use the factory approved Volvo kit but can't stomoch this
form of daylight robbery the dealer wants to inflict on me. Are there any
alternatives?
Click to expand...

The kit was less than $100 CDN last time I bought one a couple of years
ago. If you have a few wrenches and sockets, you can install all except
the drier, then take it to a shop where they can install the drier and
evacuate and charge. Or just take the whole kit to the shop and have
them do it. This doesn't need to be done at the dealer.

--
Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

NOTE: new address!!
Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
 
Daniel said:
You don't help anyone, poor or otherwise, by inflicting massively
expensive time-release damage on their A/C systems with your hack
procedure of dumping R134a into an unconverted R12 system. You also
help nobody by telling lies about automakers' published procedures
for using R134a in R12 cars.
Click to expand...

He DID say to evacuate the system first. The incompatable compressor oil is
another story though, as would be the o-rings.
 
Daniel said:
In violation of Federal law. Have you got any idea how high the
penalties are...and how much $$ will be awarded to whoever turns you
in?
Click to expand...

He said EVACUATE first.
Long enough to take the customer's cash and get the car out the door,
maybe. Long enough for a proper repair worth $5? Not a chance.


Horseshit. Both companies -- all automakers, for that matter --
publish explicit, engineering-based analyses and procedures for R134a
retrofits for all their vehicles. NONE of these procedures says "Just
dump R134a in on top of whatever's left in the R12 system". In fact,
ALL of the automakers' procedures specifically and explicitly say you
MAY NOT do this. That's in addition to the Federal laws which also
say you MAY NOT do this.
Click to expand...

No refrigerant mixing is involved. But most of the old oil MUST be replaced
with the proper type (PAG/Esther?)
 
In violation of Federal law. Have you got any idea how high the penalties
are...and how much $$ will be awarded to whoever turns you in?
Click to expand...

The chances of anyone finding out what one does in the privacy of one's
own garage is just about zero. (Oh, and I know people who still service
A/C the old fashioned way, venting refrigerant to atmosphere. No way am
I turning anyone in, for any amount of money.)
 
He said EVACUATE first.
Click to expand...

Here's what he said:
You can put 134 in on top of R-12. It still works. At less than $3 a
pound you can recharge it many times before you reach the cost of
replacing a single O-ring at a shop. If a recharge lasts 2 or 3 months
do it that way. I speak from experience. I Have been doing it since 134
came out. It does work. I have factory training with Volvo and BMW and
they have no problems with this. The EPA spread a lot of myths about the
conversion at first and have been retracting statments ever since.
Click to expand...

That's just plain wrong on every single stated fact.

DS
 
Daniel said:
On Wed, 12 May 2004, Rob wrote:
Click to expand...
Here's what he said:


That's just plain wrong on every single stated fact.

DS
Click to expand...

No, THIS is what he said.

"Evacuate the system then charge it with 134.You can put 134 in on top of
R-12. It still works. At less than $3 a pound you can recharge it many times
before you reach the cost of replacing a single O-ring at a shop. If a
recharge lasts 2 or 3 months do it that way. If it leaks out in a day or a
few weeks then you have what we call a BIG hole. Then you need a repair."
 
No, THIS is what he said.

"Evacuate the system then charge it with 134.You can put 134 in on top of
R-12. It still works.
Click to expand...

And he's still wrong. R12 oil (mineral based) is not miscible in R134a as
it is in R12. Therefore, the mineral oil is swept by the flow of
refrigerant to the lowest point in the system, where it remains. The
overwhelmingly usual result is an oil-starved compressor which grinds
itself to death, spreading shrapnel through the system and winding up
costing the vehicle owner *considerably* more money than an R134a retrofit
done correctly or even an expensive charge-up with R12. Furthermore, R134a
is a Hydrofluorocarbon. R12 is a Chlorofluorocarbon. Aside from the
physiochemical incompatibility between R134a and R12 oil, the reason a
complete system flush and oil change is prescribed by *EVERY* automaker --
including the two falsely claimed to condone the "R134a on top of R12"
procedure -- is that the "Hydro" part of Hydrofluorocarbon and the
"Chloro" part of Chlorofluorocarbon combine to make Hydrochloric Acid,
which does a dandy job of eating many metals commonly found in A/C
systems, especially aluminum. Most condensers and evaporators are
aluminum, as are a great many expansion valves, hardlines, and
compressors.

Y'understand?

DS
 
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