Howcome the 1998 Saab 9-5 wasn't available in the US?

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The Diesel

I'm in the market for a used car and my budget is $12,700 and my dad
will also let me trade in a beatup old 1994 Lincoln Town Car with
250,000 miles on it.
If the 1998 Saab 9-5 was available in the US, it would probably be the
car I'd get.
The 1998 Saab 9-5 did EXCELLENT in the European Crash Tests, but I
think that the Saab 9-5 was redesigned in 1999 and the 1999-2001 Saab
9-5s only did about average in crash tests.
Here are the crash test results for the 1998 European Saab 9-5
http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=4&id2=51
Here are the crash test results for the 1999-2001 American Saab 9-5.
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/98021.htm


The 2002-2004 Saab 9-5s also do excellent in crash tests but even the
cheapest 2002 Saab 9-5 is several thousand dollars out of my budget.
Since the 1998 Saab 9-5 is out of the question(which is unfortunate as
it did better than the 1999/2000 Volvo S80 in the European Front
Offset Crash Test and Saabs are generally more reliable than Volvos
too), I'm leaning towards a 2001 Volvo S80.


My mom actually wants me to save my money for a rainy day and for my
dad to buy a car for me, but if my dad buys me a car, it will be a
much cheaper car, and the best I could hope for is a VERY high milage
1999 Volvo S80.
This would be a major downgrade even compared to the 2001 Volvo S80
because in the 2000 model year Volvo improved the car to do better in
the front crashes, and in the 2001 model year Volvo put in new multi
stage front airbags.
In the 1999 Volvo S80, it's not as good as newer versions in front
impacts and in the 1999/2000 models the gasses coming out of the front
airbag melted the dummy's hands, and volvo fixed this problem in the
2001 Volvo S80.
In the 2001 Volvo S80 they also fixed the problem of the airbags
deploying in very minor slow speed accidents that was present in the
1999/2000 Volvo S80.
Also in the front offset of the 2000 volvo S80, the dummy' head
bounced off the front airbag, and then the back of the dummy's head
hit the b pillar although nobody really knows if this happens in the
2001-2004 Volvo S80.

The 2001-2004 Volvo S80s with the new multistage front airbags have
actually NEVER been tested in the front offset crash test so that's
why till now the Saab 9-5 really has to be consider the king of the
sub $50,000 large family cars in crash tests.


If my dad buys me a high milage 1999 Volvo S80, I think I'll have to
get some driving gloves to protect my hands as the airbags in the
1999/2000 S80 deploy even in very slow speed minor accidents and the
front driver airbag vents very hot gasses at the driver's hands.

If on the other hand I buy the 2001 S80 , I won't have to worry about
the driving gloves as they fixed that problem in the 2001 and later
models.


I really couldn't find any crash tests videos besides the side impact
poll test for the S80.
Check out the front offset crash test video of this 2002 S60 though.
Just like the 2000 S80 which was tested, on the S60 the dummy's head
hit the B pillar after bouncing off the airbag.
Also check out the extremely hot gasses coming out of the airbags.
I think in the case of the 2002 S60 the gasses are vented away from
the driver's hands, however in the case of the 1999/2000 Volvo S80 the
hot gasses from the airbags are actually vented toward's the driver's
hands.
http://www1.progressive.com/video/02VolvoS60HSF.mpg
http://www1.progressive.com/video/02VolvoS60HSF.ram

This website did in the past have a front(not offset) crash test video
of the 2001 S80, but that video no longer seems to be working.
http://www.autosafety.org/crashTestResultsNew.php?autoID=2325
 
I'm in the market for a used car and my budget is $12,700 and my dad
will also let me trade in a beatup old 1994 Lincoln Town Car with
250,000 miles on it.
If the 1998 Saab 9-5 was available in the US, it would probably be the
car I'd get.
The 1998 Saab 9-5 did EXCELLENT in the European Crash Tests, but I
think that the Saab 9-5 was redesigned in 1999
Click to expand...

Nope, same body. They just didn't sell 'em in the US that year.
The '99 (and current) 9-5's have the same crash characteristics as
the '98.
and the 1999-2001 Saab
9-5s only did about average in crash tests.
Click to expand...

Crash tests will vary from year to year, as you're seeing. It's not
all that exact of a science. Even more impressive than Saab's
crash test results are the injury statistics in the real world;
it takes into effect not only how the car performs in an arbitrary lab
test, but how it does in the real world - including crash _avoidance_
which the superb handling helps with a lot.
Here are the crash test results for the 1998 European Saab 9-5
http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=4&id2=51
Here are the crash test results for the 1999-2001 American Saab 9-5.
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/98021.htm
Click to expand...

Different labs, different testing methodologies.
The 2002-2004 Saab 9-5s also do excellent in crash tests but even the
cheapest 2002 Saab 9-5 is several thousand dollars out of my budget.
Click to expand...

A good price point to look for is at the 3-year lease tradein. The
car will only be 3 years old, you'll know it's been taken care of
well, and you have a known service history for it (the dealer can
give you this; if they won't, buy from a different dealer).
Since the 1998 Saab 9-5 is out of the question(which is unfortunate as
it did better than the 1999/2000 Volvo S80 in the European Front
Offset Crash Test and Saabs are generally more reliable than Volvos
too), I'm leaning towards a 2001 Volvo S80.
Click to expand...

Well, drive 'em both & see what you like. But, since the '99 is the same
car as the '98, I wouldn't worry too much about different test results
from different labs.
Also in the front offset of the 2000 volvo S80, the dummy' head
bounced off the front airbag, and then the back of the dummy's head
hit the b pillar although nobody really knows if this happens in the
2001-2004 Volvo S80.
Click to expand...

Look at the real world figures; lab tests are by nature arbitrary and
artificial. HLDI (Highway Loss Data Institute) would be one term to
google for.

Dave Hinz
 
The Diesel said:
I'm in the market for a used car and my budget....<cut>....did EXCELLENT
Click to expand...
in the European Crash Tests said:
Offset Crash Test ....<cut>....the car to do better in
the front crashes,....<cut>....it's not as good as newer versions in front
impacts ....<cut>.....to be consider the king of the
sub $50,000 large family cars in crash tests.
Click to expand...
.....<cut>....> Check out the front offset crash test video ....<cut>....

You either suffer from 'crash paranoia,' are a hazard to yourself and others
on the highway, or are simply looking to buy a tank. If those Saab boys are
still employing the engine and transmission as a unit concept (cannot remove
the transmission without the engine), I would be very uneasy contemplating
purchasing one! Have at least one horror story of someone falling in love
with one Saab model which he purchased for about $4500. Almost immediately
the tranny failed. Upon discovering the cost of repair would exceed his
purchase price he promptly bought an identical model for about the same
money. Not long thereafter that tranny also failed - now this goodly(?)
fellow has two essentially worthless driveway decorations to marvel
at..................as one wag was wont to say, about anyone can afford a
used Mercedes; however, not that many can afford to have one repaired - that
engine/transmission as a unit that Saab has used is another good case in
point!

Hey!, if I can recall the guy's name, I'll have him give you a call; maybe
he can recoup some of his lost cash, if one of those crash testing outfits
can use those two decorations (Saabs) he has??

Jim
 
You either suffer from 'crash paranoia,' are a hazard to yourself and others
on the highway, or are simply looking to buy a tank. If those Saab boys are
still employing the engine and transmission as a unit concept (cannot remove
the transmission without the engine), I would be very uneasy contemplating
purchasing one!
Click to expand...

Never been true, Jim. Your source is wrong.
Have at least one horror story of someone falling in love
with one Saab model which he purchased for about $4500. Almost immediately
the tranny failed. Upon discovering the cost of repair would exceed his
purchase price he promptly bought an identical model for about the same
money.
Click to expand...

I also don't know of any Saab tranny which would approach $4500 in cost.
not that many can afford to have one repaired - that
engine/transmission as a unit that Saab has used is another good case in
point!
Click to expand...

What model, Jim? Doesn't exist. Or, he ran into a crooked car repair
shop which fed him a line, which is probably more likely.
Hey!, if I can recall the guy's name, I'll have him give you a call; maybe
he can recoup some of his lost cash, if one of those crash testing outfits
can use those two decorations (Saabs) he has??
Click to expand...

Maybe he can clarify to you what the story is, because the version
you got from him isn't reality.
 
Dave Hinz said:
Never been true, Jim. Your source is wrong.


I also don't know of any Saab tranny which would approach $4500 in cost.


What model, Jim? Doesn't exist. Or, he ran into a crooked car repair
shop which fed him a line, which is probably more likely.


Maybe he can clarify to you what the story is, because the version
you got from him isn't reality.
Click to expand...

Dave, not sure what your qualifications are concerning transmission work on
Saab autos; however, have this reply from a tranny mech that has been doing
this stuff for 25 years or more and it is a family function so actual
experience goes back three generations:

"these guys are insane...i can assure you that on the 900 series saab, that
the motor must be removed to get to tranny....any argument to this is futile
!!.....now the 9000 series is a different matter...it is a more conventional
front wheel drive and the tranny can be removed...no one in their right mind
would have labor charges of less than 2,000 dollars to remove and install
this unit and tear down of tranny, plus a possibility of $1,000-$2,000 in
parts....the saab would have to be the safest car in the world, because you
are not in a lot of danger at 0 mph on the side of the road !! "

As they say, them what knows, knows............the poor guy buying one of
these boys second or third hand is the one who 'should know' but probably,
like the 900 lover in my story, hasn't a clue!

Some Toyota Camrys are about as bad, as far as expensive transmissions when
repair calls - one woman was tickled pink when my friend quoted her a price
around $2k to get her wreck back on the road - seems everyone else just
wanted to plug in a reman to the tune of about $3.5K!

I mean, what is the surprise when most of these "quality" autos crank
outta-da-barn for anywhere from $20K - $75K - parts don't get cheaper just
'cause the old hunk gets older? Sad note is that many quality independent
garages are going bye-bye every day and soon, with more and more of this
'modular' (non-repairable) concept, that lady and many like her will be
crying the blues when all that is available will be that "new reman" from a
dealer for $3,500 or likely more!

Jim
 
JIM said:
Dave, not sure what your qualifications are concerning transmission work on
Saab autos; however, have this reply from a tranny mech that has been doing
this stuff for 25 years or more and it is a family function so actual
experience goes back three generations:

"these guys are insane...i can assure you that on the 900 series saab, that
the motor must be removed to get to tranny....any argument to this is futile
!!.....now the 9000 series is a different matter...it is a more conventional
front wheel drive and the tranny can be removed...no one in their right mind
would have labor charges of less than 2,000 dollars to remove and install
this unit and tear down of tranny, plus a possibility of $1,000-$2,000 in
parts....the saab would have to be the safest car in the world, because you
are not in a lot of danger at 0 mph on the side of the road !! "
Click to expand...

LOL! I was at a VW/Saab agency in the S.F. Valley getting some VW
parts. There was a Saab Mechanic working on a Saab, and he continually
was saying "SLAABS" in a very derogatory tone.

My first thought when I read:
"Howcome the 1998 Saab 9-5 wasn't available in the US?"
was... "Because we are lucky...?"
I mean, what is the surprise when most of these "quality" autos crank
outta-da-barn for anywhere from $20K - $75K - parts don't get cheaper just
'cause the old hunk gets older? Sad note is that many quality independent
garages are going bye-bye every day and soon, with more and more of this
'modular' (non-repairable) concept, that lady and many like her will be
crying the blues when all that is available will be that "new reman" from a
dealer for $3,500 or likely more!
Click to expand...


I have a tranny guy who did my GM 700R4 (or is it 700-4R?) tranny two
and one half times in just over 300,000 miles. He is good, reasonable,
and honest. He went through the same thing with the Taurus trannys. He
found it easier and more dependable to get a rebuilt directly from
Ford than the try to work on them.

How "similar" is the tranny in the 960 to what he might know. He said
he hasn't done much in the way of Volvo work (and not that my tranny
needs anything) but with his general tranny knowledge, I wonder if he
can handle the Volvo tranny?
__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvo
'93 960 Estate
 
<Randy G.> wrote in message
..... said:
he hasn't done much in the way of Volvo work (and not that my tranny
needs anything) but with his general tranny knowledge, I wonder if he
can handle the Volvo tranny?
__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvo
'93 960 Estate
Click to expand...

Reply from my friend was: "the volvo has an aisian warner transmission
(toyota)....its been around for a long time and is a relatively easy unit to
repair...."

Confidence in the folks that you are trusting your gear to is, as a popular
add goes, priceless;) Still recall the first/last time I heard a Volvo
service rep ask the owners of, think it was something new back in the
'80s(?), a then current Volvo model "if they understood that a major tuneup
would run close to $345 or so and were sure that is what they wanted
done?" - 'Course, owning a '74 164 and having done most of the mechanical
work on it for some time, I was pretty astounded - don't remember my '74,
even with a valve adjustment, ever exceeding $80!

Said all that to say I have been very fortunate to find, come to know and be
friends with, a local repair shop (transmission work buys the beans) that
has helped make it possible for that ole '74 to make it to its 30th BD (Aug)
with only 2 motor jobs (one which was dealer caused) in about 410,000 miles
logged - did the last rebuild myself and have already put 25,000 on it;) So,
since you trust the guy doing work for you I'd be inclined to stay with him!

Good luck with that 960............

Jim
 
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