P0410 OBDII code

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Michael Chiu, Jan 5, 2005.

  1. Michael Chiu

    Michael Chiu Guest

    The dreaded Check Engine light came on today, so I took the car down to
    AutoZone to get a reading. P0410 ... malfunction exists in the secondary
    air injection system.

    Can anyone tell me more about this problem?

    Since the light came on as I was driving to work, I checked underneath the
    car before I left for home tonight. There were two small puddles of liquid
    beneath the car. I think both puddles were water. Is this related in any
    way?

    Thanks,
    mike
     
    Michael Chiu, Jan 5, 2005
    #1
  2. What model and year car?

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Jan 5, 2005
    #2
  3. Michael Chiu

    Mike F Guest

    It just means your air pump system is not working. This will not affect
    anything in the way the car drives, the only effect will be an increase
    in cold start emissions. (And the check engine light as well.)
    Probably what's happened is the SAS (SAS = secondary air system) valve
    has failed in the slightly open position, allowing exhaust to flow into
    the air pump, which is helpfully located at the lowest possible point so
    condensation fills it and eventually works its way into the motor,
    ruining it. However there's a control system, partially vacuum,
    partially electric, which can fail as well.

    The details on your car are slightly different than the 850, the relay
    is in the "Main Fuses" box, but look at:

    http://www.volvospeed.com/Repair/airpump1.htm

    --
    Mike F.
    Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

    Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
    (But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
     
    Mike F, Jan 5, 2005
    #3
  4. er..Mike..What kind of car is it??
     
    Steve n Holly, Jan 5, 2005
    #4
  5. Michael Chiu

    mikechiu Guest

    It's a 1998 S70 T5.

    Those Bay13 pictures are great. Is there any possibility that battery
    acid might have eaten through anything, and thus added to the problems?
    Battery acid ate through the connection of a cluster of wires at the
    positive terminal.

    The car has been feeling sluggish lately ... does this air pump have
    any bearing on that?

    2004 was a terrible year for my car (79,000 miles now)...
    replaced both cv joints
    replaced an inner tie rod
    replaced a wheel bearing
    replaced engine mount bushings
    unfixed so far- passenger door handle is jammed
    pending - this air pump issue
     
    mikechiu, Jan 6, 2005
    #5
  6. In the interest of keeping this thread going...

    I keep getting the SAS Malfunction code as well, but I can't bring myself to
    replace the $300 blower for the following reasons:

    1) The light never comes on at startup or during the first two minutes of
    driving. It usually comes on after the car is warm and has been running for
    15-20 minutes. I'm under the impression that the SAS pump only runs for two
    minutes at startup, so why would it kick off a code so much later?

    2) I can feel/hear the pump running for the first couple of minutes after
    startup so I know the motor's not burned out.

    3) The light only comes on once a week or so, not every time, so I know the
    motor's not burned out.


    So perhaps I have a wiring problem that occasionally wiggles itself to
    simulate a fault?

    Can anyone tell me what exactly triggers the fault, i.e. what electrical
    signal indicates a fault? Is it the current draw on the SAS pump motor? Is
    it the O2 sensor level at startup?

    My Haynes manual only dedicates one sentence to the SAS system,
    acknowledging its existence, and it doesn't appear on the schematics.

    Thanks,

    -RL
     
    Robert Lutwak, Jan 6, 2005
    #6
  7. Michael Chiu

    Mike F Guest

    The computer has no reliable way of sensing if the air pump is working
    at cold start. So, it's tested after the car is warmed up. When you
    come to idle, sometime after the car is warmed up, the computer stops
    adjusting the mixture and monitors the front oxygen sensor, then turns
    on the air pump system. If the oxygen sensor does not report more
    oxygen in the exhaust within a few seconds, then it believes there's a
    problem with the air pump system.

    These test conditions may not occur in every trip you take, and if the
    A/C comes on, or the throttle goes off idle, the test is aborted. 2
    aborts and the computer won't try to retest until after the next cold
    start.

    If your pump is running, chances are it doesn't need to be changed, no
    matter how noisy it is. In addition, there is a solenoid valve that
    needs to open to allow engine vacuum to open the SAS valve. And of
    course the purple vacuum hose between the solenoid and SAS valve has to
    be OK. The wires can come off the solenoid valve, something can go
    wrong with the vacuum supply, and the SAS valve can be seized closed.

    On my '98 V70 the pump has been noisy for more than a year, and still
    works fine. The SAS valve would not fully close, so I changed that last
    year when I first noticed the pump noise. On my '98 S70, the pump was
    dead (burned out motor, seized shaft) when I bought it in '02. Also the
    SAS valve was seized closed. A friend with a '98 V70 had a noisy pump
    in the fall, I counselled him to ignore it after letting him hear mine,
    but his was dead within 2 weeks.

    --
    Mike F.
    Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

    Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
    (But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
     
    Mike F, Jan 6, 2005
    #7
  8. Michael Chiu

    Mike F Guest

    If battery acid gets anywhere, it's going to wreck things.
    Air pump failure has no symptoms other than the check engine light.

    --
    Mike F.
    Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

    Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
    (But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
     
    Mike F, Jan 6, 2005
    #8
  9. Michael Chiu

    Michael Chiu Guest

    So, what's my best approach to the fixes now? Replace both the valve and
    the air pump? How would I know if both need replacing?


    $295 - air pump
    $86 - valve
    $5 - clamps and gasket

    Yikes

    How safe is a $175 used air pump? If this part is often a problem, it's
    not a safe bet, right?

    If this part is in short supply at FCP Groton, and the Volvo part is $400,
    would you go the used route? Would it be safe to wait until FCP gets the
    part?

    Thanks,
    Mike
    mikechiu AT overlunch DOT com
     
    Michael Chiu, Jan 7, 2005
    #9
  10. Michael Chiu

    Mike F Guest

    In the "main fuses" box are 2 yellow relays. Pull the one furthest from
    the fender and jump the 2 larger terminals and see if it runs and
    pumps. Note that the air pump draws a lot of current, a thin jumper
    wire will get hot enough to burn you almost immediately and the ends of
    your jumper will weld to the terminals. If the pump runs, it won't need
    to be replaced, at least not right away. The SAS valve is simply a
    vacuum valve. It should be sealed tight when no vacuum is applied to
    the small vacuum connection, and open when vacuum is applied. If it
    won't seal tight, then it needs to be replaced.

    I wouldn't chance a used part unless it was a lot closer to free than
    $175. Not fixing this immediately will only cause annoyance from the
    check engine light, and if you have another problem, you won't know
    about it. The air pump not working will not cause any other
    consequential damage. Under the battery is an electrical connector for
    the air pump, disconnect it from the car harness or just leave the relay
    out if it's not working.

    --
    Mike F.
    Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

    Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
    (But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
     
    Mike F, Jan 7, 2005
    #10
  11. Michael Chiu

    Michael Chiu Guest

    I took another look inside the car today when it was bright outside. The
    black rubber where the purple vacuum line meets the SAS valve is in bad
    shape. Do you know if the rubber serves as a hose or if it's just
    protection for the vacuum line connection. If it's a hose, then that is
    obviously the place I should start.

    Can this vacuum line be replaced without replacing other things? Where
    does the other end lead?

    Thanks.
    Mike
     
    Michael Chiu, Jan 8, 2005
    #11
  12. Michael Chiu

    Mike F Guest

    That elbow does indeed carry vacuum, so you need to replace it (it's
    available separately) and if you're lucky that will be your only
    problem. The purple vacuum line goes under the distributor and ends up
    at the solenoid that is mounted on the fan shroud. From the solenoid
    you can follow the other vacuum line to the intake manifold.

    --
    Mike F.
    Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

    Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
    (But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
     
    Mike F, Jan 10, 2005
    #12
  13. Michael Chiu

    TheOldMan

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Messages:
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    I just used a piece of windshield washer fluid hose to replace the elbow as mine had disintegrated. It fit tightly so I think it will work. This is the same fix I did for the broken cruise control vacuum hose.
     
    TheOldMan, Feb 25, 2017
    #13
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