Timing Belt failure - help!

  • Thread starter Thread starter AB
  • Start date Start date
A

AB

My dealer replaced the timing belt on my 1996 855 TDI at the 80,000
service. After 1000 more liles it failed whilst I was on the M1,
causing aas yet unknown damage to the engine.

The dealer, Speeds of Nottingham, tell me the incident was caused by the
water pump which failed, and damaged the new timing belt, causing all
the damage which will now NOT be covered by the parts warranty (which it
would if the belt alone had been responsible).

Is this likely, or could the pump have been damaged when the timing belt
gave way?

Sounds to me like I'm being stiffed.

Any advice please?

Cheers,

AB
 
My dealer replaced the timing belt on my 1996 855 TDI at the 80,000
service. After 1000 more liles it failed whilst I was on the M1,
causing aas yet unknown damage to the engine.

The dealer, Speeds of Nottingham, tell me the incident was caused by the
water pump which failed, and damaged the new timing belt, causing all
the damage which will now NOT be covered by the parts warranty (which it
would if the belt alone had been responsible).

Is this likely, or could the pump have been damaged when the timing belt
gave way?

Sounds to me like I'm being stiffed.

Any advice please?

Cheers,

AB
Click to expand...

The waterpump is driven by the cambelt on the 850's. If the waterpump
failed badly it would have taken the cambelt with it. Seeing as you
have only done 1000 miles since the change I doubt whether the dealer
checked the waterpump whilst changing the cambelt.
When I changed mine at 120,000 (I do it more regually than Volvo
recommend) I noticed that the waterpump was getting a bit tight and
had a slight watermark around the pulley although there was no actual
leak. To be on the safe side and for 30 odd quid I changed it (easy to
do when on a cambelt change)


Dave
 
Thanks for the reply.

Considering the potential (and in this case actuality) for disaster, I
would have thought checking the water pump should be normal practice,
but my dealer said it was not a requirement of the service -
unbelievable though that may sound.

I still think the problem was caused during their servicing of the car -
all was fine until then.

AB
 
AB said:
Thanks for the reply.

Considering the potential (and in this case actuality) for disaster,
I would have thought checking the water pump should be normal
practice, but my dealer said it was not a requirement of the service
- unbelievable though that may sound.

I still think the problem was caused during their servicing of the
car - all was fine until then.
Click to expand...

Checking- and usually replacing- the water pump when replacing the
timing belt *is* standard practice. Your mechanic is trying to dodge
here. Check the Volvo repair manual to see what standard practice
ought to be. For the minimal price of a water pump- since there is no
extra labor cost as the water pump is already removed- your mechanic
*should* have said "mate, we should replace this water pump while
we're in here."

You may need to get a lawyer involved as the repairs are likely to be
expensive- worst case scenario will require an engine rebuild with new
valves, pistons, etc. Your lawyer might be able to suggest to them
that fixing their error might be cheaper than going to court.

You should also get a second opinion from an independent experienced
Volvo mechanic.
 
Well, if the water pump seized, it could cause the belt to break. It's a
possibility. I would check if the tensioner was replaced, if it's the same
as in the petrol engine. usually that is replaced as well, depending on the
year of the car. I believe that the tensioner was changed at some point.
The water pump could have been leaking before hand. The dealer should, could
have replaced it as a maintenance item, since its right there while doing
the timing belt. It would be a pain just to change the water pump and not
the timing belt.

JBL
 
Agreed that any mechanical part can fail - just seems a co-incidence
that Volvo should claim this is responsible instead of admitting the new
belt or its fitting was to blame.
 
Tim,

My thoughts also.

I've written to the dealer along these lines, and may have to consult a
lawyer after the 7 days I gave them to respond. Not a route I would
prefer to take as the dealer has the car and the parts in question, so
the evidence is in their hands. However, given the actual
circumstances, I would hope the balance of probabilities lie in my
favour rather than the dealer should it go to court.

Thanks for the input.

Andrew
 
AB said:
My dealer replaced the timing belt on my 1996 855 TDI at the 80,000
service. After 1000 more liles it failed whilst I was on the M1,
causing aas yet unknown damage to the engine.

The dealer, Speeds of Nottingham, tell me the incident was caused by the
water pump which failed, and damaged the new timing belt, causing all
the damage which will now NOT be covered by the parts warranty (which it
would if the belt alone had been responsible).

Is this likely, or could the pump have been damaged when the timing belt
gave way?
Click to expand...

Firstly my condolancies.

It is strongly recommended to replace the water pump and idlers and
tensioner(s) along wiht the belt when changing it if you;re expecting those
components to last another 80k.

The dealer should have advised you have the water pump etc changed along
with the belt. A pump that is going to expire in 1k miles surely is going to
have at the least a noisy bearing which any mechanic worth his salt would
have checked- just spin the shaft. So I would think you have grounds for
negligance on that count.

That said an over tightened new belt can also cause premature failure on any
components bearings, but an over tight one makes a zzzzzz-ing noise which
you would have heard. (does the TDI use an auto tensioner?)

If the car has a full Volvo history then I would be leaning on the dealer
severely to pay at least 1/2 the repair costs seeing as you suffered failure
so soon after a new belt.

Tim..
 
Tim,

Thanks for your reply and your concern.

In August I returned the car to the dealer because I had heard a strange
noise - this turned out to a defective timing belt - some teeth were
missing. The belt, pulley and tensioner were changed at that time.

On this latest occasion I hadn't heard any odd noises which may have
indicated a similar problem. I was cauight by surprise whwen it
happened therefore. Fortunately I managed to manoever it across to the
hard shoulder and safety without power assistance.

Cheers.

Andrew

Tim (Remove NOSPAM. Registry corupted, reformated HD and lost alot of
 
Tim,

Thanks for your reply and your concern.

In August I returned the car to the dealer because I had heard a strange
noise - this turned out to a defective timing belt - some teeth were
missing. The belt, pulley and tensioner were changed at that time.

On this latest occasion I hadn't heard any odd noises which may have
indicated a similar problem. I was cauight by surprise whwen it
happened therefore. Fortunately I managed to manoever it across to the
hard shoulder and safety without power assistance.
Click to expand...

Looking at the service schedule, it doesn't specifically state to ever
check the water pump as an individual item....unless that is specified
in the subjobs of replacing the cambelt.
 
Conrad,

I noted that on the service sheet also.

Apparently though, some manufacturers recommend changing the water pump
when the cambelt is changed - a wise precaution given that the water
pump failure can appear to be so catastrophic - it should be routinely
inspected and replaced when there is any indication of a problem.

As the Volvo mechanics had the opportunity to check it over twice in 3
months, one could assume that it did not require attention / was not of
any concern.

Andrew
 
Tim (Remove NOSPAM. Registry corupted, reformated HD and lost alot of
stuff said:
Firstly my condolancies.

It is strongly recommended to replace the water pump and idlers and
tensioner(s) along wiht the belt when changing it if you;re expecting those
components to last another 80k.
Click to expand...

Every 60-80K replace the water pump. This is true for almost all cars.
The dealer should have advised you have the water pump etc changed along
with the belt. A pump that is going to expire in 1k miles surely is going to
have at the least a noisy bearing which any mechanic worth his salt would
have checked- just spin the shaft. So I would think you have grounds for
negligance on that count.
Click to expand...

Yeah - that kind of seemed odd as well. You know, they have to most often
remove the water pump when they take the timing chain cover off. Perhaps
they munged the gasket or something? Worth checking.
 
I had an independent mechanic look at the problem - and his opinion was
that the servicing mechanic overtightened the new belt, which caused the
water pump bearings to fail. No proof however.

The dealer and Volvo UK must have thought this possible, as they are
covering 89% of the nearly £5,000 repair job - its still going to cost
me another £525 though - at least I get the car back with a new water
pump, cylinder head and valves.

From now on - it would be a very good idea to change the water pump
whenever the timing belt is changed. I don't know why Volvo don't
recommend this - none of the service checks currently involve checking
the water pump, yet the damage is catastrophic when it fails.

Something for Volvo HQ to address.

AB
 
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