Wrong engine oil used, what are the consequences?

[Husam]

Hi friends,
Few months ago I started changing engine oil by myself. I used 15W40 for my
car 850 i 10v from 1995. Since then I noticed a fast ticking sound coming
from the engine which lasts only for few seconds. This sound is noticeble
only when starting in cold (in the morning for example). I thought that was
normal because the oil needs to be pumped to the upper parts of the engine
when it is cold which may take few seconds. I drove about 2000 km and drove
over the German highways where there is no speed limit. There I reached a
top speed of 195 km/hour and the car was very smooth and I enjoyed the trip,
so the car has no problem with 15W40 oil at high speed. Few days ago I
changed the oil again. I noticed that the old oil had a strange smell (
smells a little bit like benzin). When my hand came in contact with the old
oil by accident I was surprised to see thereafter that the oil caused a
scrash wounds on my hand on a limited area of about one square inch ( like
cat nails scrash a persons skin). So I explained the problem to my volvo
dealer here in the Netherlands and he told me that the engine needs revision
because one or more pistons/piston-rings is/are leaking fuel to the
compartment where the oil sits. and that is may be because you used 15W40 in
stead of 5W40 oil. I simply dont believe him because if the piston is
leaking fuel the oil must also leak to the compartment where fuel gets
burned, wright? and as a result this should be noticeble when you examine
the exhaust gases which are to my opinion nothing strange with it, no black
/ white gases. Yeasterday I changed the spark plugs and they were in very
good condition. However, there are other issues that support the hypothesis
of piston malfunctioning. These are that the car consumes about 0.5 liter of
oil each 2000/3000 km. It's hard to accelerate below 2000 rpm as other cars
do on the road, so I have to pass the 2000 rpm limit in order to flow
normally with traffic.

Anybody has an input?

Thanks in advance,
Husam Alwan

 

[Bonnet Lock]

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

Hi friends,
Few months ago I started changing engine oil by myself. I used 15W40
for my car 850 i 10v from 1995. Since then I noticed a fast ticking
sound coming from the engine which lasts only for few seconds. This
sound is noticeble only when starting in cold (in the morning for
example). I thought that was normal because the oil needs to be
pumped to the upper parts of the engine when it is cold which may
take few seconds. I drove about 2000 km and drove over the German
highways where there is no speed limit. There I reached a top speed
of 195 km/hour and the car was very smooth and I enjoyed the trip, so
the car has no problem with 15W40 oil at high speed. Few days ago I
changed the oil again. I noticed that the old oil had a strange smell
( smells a little bit like benzin). When my hand came in contact with
the old oil by accident I was surprised to see thereafter that the
oil caused a scrash wounds on my hand on a limited area of about one
square inch ( like cat nails scrash a persons skin). So I explained
the problem to my volvo dealer here in the Netherlands and he told me
that the engine needs revision because one or more
pistons/piston-rings is/are leaking fuel to the compartment where the
oil sits. and that is may be because you used 15W40 in stead of 5W40
oil. I simply dont believe him because if the piston is leaking fuel
the oil must also leak to the compartment where fuel gets burned,
wright? and as a result this should be noticeble when you examine the
exhaust gases which are to my opinion nothing strange with it, no
black / white gases. Yeasterday I changed the spark plugs and they
were in very good condition. However, there are other issues that
support the hypothesis of piston malfunctioning. These are that the
car consumes about 0.5 liter of oil each 2000/3000 km. It's hard to
accelerate below 2000 rpm as other cars do on the road, so I have to
pass the 2000 rpm limit in order to flow normally with traffic.

Anybody has an input?

Thanks in advance,
Husam Alwan

All used engine oil smells horrible and doesn't do your skin a lot of good
if you get it on your hands - so you can't deduce very much from that.

AIUI, the difference between 5W40 and 15W40 is that 5W40 flows slightly
better at very low temperatures - and thus lubricates your engine better
when you first start up from cold. But this is only significant at *very*
low temperatures - 15W40 is ok down to about minus 10degC.

Your engine is probably getting a bit worn - how many km has it done from
new? Oil consumption of a litre per 5000 km is a little high for a modern
engine, but by no means excessive. [A few years ago, this would have been
considered commonplace]. It is highly unlikely that you have your damaged
your engine by using the wrong oil.

If, as you suggest, torque is poor at low RPM, it's possible that some of
the valves are burnt or not seating properly. It would be a good idea to
perform a compression test - since you can also then check for worn piston
rings. [If the compression test gives a low reading, squirt some oil into
the cylinder through the plug hole and re-test it. If the reading
dramatically improves, the pistons and/or rings are worn. If the oil makes
no difference, the valves are at fault - and will need to be replaced or
re-seated.

HTH.

 

[Guest]

Hi friends,
Few months ago I started changing engine oil by myself. I used 15W40 for my
car 850 i 10v from 1995. Since then I noticed a fast ticking sound coming
from the engine which lasts only for few seconds. This sound is noticeble
only when starting in cold (in the morning for example).

The ticking is more likely due to a cheap oil filter which is allowing the
oil to drain out of the engine over night. Volvo and good pattern filters
have the anti drain valve. Start there with that problem.

In the UK, 15w-40 oil is recommended for most temperature ranges. I use it
in our 2.5 10v, and did so in our previous 2.0 20v 850 which covered 110,000
trouble free miles. Perhaps the 15w rating is alittle thick in winter-
though its rarely below freezing for any number of days.

What is more important is that the oil is of the right quality. This is
nothing to do with the viscosity range. Use the best quality you can find-
not sure what the german index is- possibly the "G" rating- G for gasoline.
Currently the best available is G6.

Tim..

 

[Husam]

Thanks for the reply.

All used engine oil smells horrible and doesn't do your skin a lot of good
if you get it on your hands - so you can't deduce very much from that.

Ok, this is good to know.

AIUI, the difference between 5W40 and 15W40 is that 5W40 flows slightly
better at very low temperatures - and thus lubricates your engine better
when you first start up from cold. But this is only significant at *very*
low temperatures - 15W40 is ok down to about minus 10degC.

This is good to know too because the temperatues did not drop below minus
10degC last winter in Holland.

Your engine is probably getting a bit worn - how many km has it done from
new?

The car has made 164.600 km (~100.000 miles)

Oil consumption of a litre per 5000 km is a little high for a modern
engine, but by no means excessive. [A few years ago, this would have been
considered commonplace]. It is highly unlikely that you have your damaged
your engine by using the wrong oil.

If, as you suggest, torque is poor at low RPM, it's possible that some of
the valves are burnt or not seating properly. It would be a good idea to
perform a compression test - since you can also then check for worn piston
rings. [If the compression test gives a low reading, squirt some oil into
the cylinder through the plug hole and re-test it. If the reading
dramatically improves, the pistons and/or rings are worn. If the oil makes
no difference, the valves are at fault - and will need to be replaced or
re-seated.

I'm not 100% sure about the poor torque at low RPM. That is because I don't
have another volvo 850 to compare with. The situation is as follow: here in
Holland the maximum speed in urban areas is 50 km/hour. So, when traffic
light becomes green most of the cars accelerate to cruising speed 50 km/h as
soon as possible. With my car I need to reach between 2000 and 2500 RPM to
accelerate at the same rate as the other cars on the road. In my openion
2000-2500 RPM is too heigh and that's why I think that my car has a poor
torque at low RPM. So my question has always been like this: ok I think that
my car has a poor torque, but compared to which car?

I never did a compression check so do you recommend me to let volvo dealer
do the check or is it easy to do at home? I've found
some info about on the net
(http://www.volvoadventures.com/howtodocompressiontest.html) but I'm not
sure whether the instructions
are applicable to my car.

 

[Husam]

The ticking is more likely due to a cheap oil filter which is allowing the
oil to drain out of the engine over night. Volvo and good pattern filters
have the anti drain valve. Start there with that problem.

In the UK, 15w-40 oil is recommended for most temperature ranges. I use it
in our 2.5 10v, and did so in our previous 2.0 20v 850 which covered 110,000
trouble free miles. Perhaps the 15w rating is alittle thick in winter-
though its rarely below freezing for any number of days.

I always use volvo filters.

What is more important is that the oil is of the right quality. This is
nothing to do with the viscosity range. Use the best quality you can find-
not sure what the german index is- possibly the "G" rating- G for gasoline.
Currently the best available is G6.

I will keep this in mind.

 

[Jim Carriere]

The ticking is more likely due to a cheap oil filter which is allowing the
oil to drain out of the engine over night. Volvo and good pattern filters
have the anti drain valve. Start there with that problem.

Tim, on the 20v 5 cylinder engine, the oil filter screws onto the bottom of
the engine, so the oil cannot drain out of it. (This is also very nice when
one changes the oil and filter.)

I saw farther in your post you have the 10v and 20v engines. Is the oil
filter placement different on these?

Anyway, I seem to remember something in my owner's manual about ticking
noise from the hydraulic lifters. It says that it is acceptable for the
first few minutes in a cold engine, provided the engine is not run faster
than about about 3000rpm. Mine has never "ticked" for more than ten
seconds, even after sitting for over a month.

And back to the original post, if anybody told me 15w40 oil damaged a 9 year
old engine, I would be suspicious of anything else that mechanic had to say.
That is exactly what weight of oil I would choose in my car if I were to run
it hard on the autobahn.

 

[Guest]

Tim, on the 20v 5 cylinder engine, the oil filter screws onto the bottom of
the engine, so the oil cannot drain out of it. (This is also very nice when
one changes the oil and filter.)

I saw farther in your post you have the 10v and 20v engines. Is the oil
filter placement different on these?

Anyway, I seem to remember something in my owner's manual about ticking
noise from the hydraulic lifters. It says that it is acceptable for the
first few minutes in a cold engine, provided the engine is not run faster
than about about 3000rpm. Mine has never "ticked" for more than ten
seconds, even after sitting for over a month.

And back to the original post, if anybody told me 15w40 oil damaged a 9 year
old engine, I would be suspicious of anything else that mechanic had to say.
That is exactly what weight of oil I would choose in my car if I were to run
it hard on the autobahn.

All the 10 and 20v (petrol) engines up to around 2001 have the same style of
filter- which hangs under the engine. Drain back is not much of a problem,
but its the usual case with lifters that suddenly become noisy on cold start
after an oil / filter change. I've never ever had noisy lifters on either
engine- after an oil change or after several weeks of non-use and always use
a genuine Volvo or Mann filter.

The 10v engine is alot more torquey than the 20v but I'd like to see any
engine which will accelarate a car quickly at 2000rpm that isnt a turbo
diesel! To the OP- rev it abit harder! The 10v cars are pretty high geared
as it is....

I shall be sticking with the 15w-40 oil in my car too- it gets varied use,
various medium speed driving but also some high speed work- 90-100mph
cruising for upto 3 hrs at a time also, which is a steady 4000rpm or so.

Tim..

 

[Bonnet Lock]

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

I never did a compression check so do you recommend me to let volvo
dealer do the check or is it easy to do at home? I've found
some info about on the net
(http://www.volvoadventures.com/howtodocompressiontest.html) but I'm
not sure whether the instructions
are applicable to my car.

Your car is probably ok - its just that you're not adopting the same "boy
racer" driving style as some of the other drivers in the traffic lights
grand prix!

If you want to do a compression test, the instructions which you quote are
perfectly ok. You should be able to buy a compression tester from a motor
accessory shop fairly cheaply. In the uk, the are the equivalent of about 25
Euros. It's quite easy to do yourself if you follow the instructions.

The other things to check if you are worried about performance are that the
fuel and ignition systems are correctly set up. You would probably need to
pay a professional to do those.

 

[John Horner]

Few months ago I started changing engine oil by myself. I used 15W40 for my
car 850 i 10v from 1995.

Hmmm, my '96 US market Volvo 850 owners manual specifically *suggests*
15W-40 as the best oil to use for operating at temps above freezing.

Whatever is wrong with your Volvo, I don't think 15W-40 oil caused the
problem unless you were using it during very cold winter conditions.

John

 

[John Horner]

With my car I need to reach between 2000 and 2500 RPM to

accelerate at the same rate as the other cars on the road. In my openion
2000-2500 RPM is too heigh and that's why I think that my car has a poor
torque at low RPM. So my question has always been like this: ok I think that
my car has a poor torque, but compared to which car?

I've never driven the 10 valve version of the 850 motor, but I will say that
2000-2500 RPM is hardly pushing a 2.5 liter 5 cylinder engine.

John

 

[Guest]

I've never driven the 10 valve version of the 850 motor, but I will say that
2000-2500 RPM is hardly pushing a 2.5 liter 5 cylinder engine.

Having had both the 20v 2 litre and now the 10v 2.5, I can say that neither
will accelorate the car much at sub 2500rpm levels, infact i'd consider
trying to accelarate rapidly at these engine speeds would be labouring the
engine. Change down and let it rev abit higher- much better for the engine.

With the 10v there is good performance to be had from 2500rpm upwards, and
it then dies at about 5000rpm.

With the 20v not alot happens below 3500rpm, and its still pulling hard at
6500rpm (which is into the red on the tacho)

The larger engine isnt actually any faster, just alot easier to drive
quickly.

The auto suits the smaller engine better as its keen to kick down and let
the engine rev, whereas the manual gearbox suits the larger 10v engine
better.

Over the same driving course, you'll find the 2.5 10v engine more
economical, especially in open road motoring. (the gearing is alot higher
too)

Tim..

 

[El Mecky]

[dutch] Husam, waar zit je ergens in nederland? [end
dutch]

Look out here! Volvo 850 is a very big and heavy car.
You don't have the very powerfull turbo engine!

And then again, most idiots with smaller, lighter cars accellerate at higher
RPM's. Why shouldn't they? They trow away their cars anayway after 200.000
Km. I agree that the 850 is a car that is very well suited with shifting
arround 2500-3000 rpm. BUT, as i did this in my 740, in my dad's 850 i
always tended to drive a bit more RPM. My V70 is equipped with an 2.0 liter
engine (smallest on the market in this car) so might be a bit to small to
accellerate fast with such a heavy car AND get the durability i am used to
from Volvo.

If you live anywhere near maastricht, let me know. You can drive my V70 and
see how it performs against your 850.

Also I would drive your car, if that's okay with you, and compare it to my
dad's with the samen engine.

The part on the oil is bullshit by the way. Dealer over here in holland also
replaces wit 15W40 or max 10W40. The tikking is normal (self-adjusting
"klep-stoters" [dutch] are making the tikking sound. Sound also gets worse
as car get's more miles on it. Tikking lasts longer and is louder when not
enough oil in the engine. Read your manual. Tikking last up to 20 seconds.
During that period you are not supposed to rev up your engine above, i
think, 2000 or 3000 RPM.

Nice car by the way. Enjoy it. Will last for years.

If you live in Limburg, go to Biermans in Maastricht. Klijn in Heerlen
sucks!! They took away his dealership twice! now is a brother or a nephew
that started again with the volvo dealership. Service is still crappy. They
don't know what they are talking about.