164e Diff Ratio

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pete Fuggle
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Pete Fuggle

Hi All,

thanks for all your responses to my previous post.

Have had more of a chance to become acquainted with and fix niggling
problems with the 164e. Am really beginning to like it for reasons that
will probably be familiar to many of you but there remain a few niggling
things...

Firstly the steering at full lock left. It shudders and carries on but
is fine if you just back it off from lock a little. I remember the same
thing on my Mum's old 245GL back in the mid eighties when I was learning
to drive on it... That car (the 245) couldn't have been that old but had
similar symptoms. I assume it is on the left lock because in Aus we
drive on the left and hence backing out of driveways, parks etc.
requires full lock but on the other side full lock is rarely used. Any
ideas?

Ok, second is the fuel economy which I mentioned last time. Well, not
just the economy. Also the fact that the engine "sings" at highway
speeds (100-120k/h). I had another look and at 120k/h it is indicating
3700rpm. Last time I mentioned the tranny but overlooked the possibility
of perhaps changing the diff ratio to raise the overall gearing. Is this
possible do you think? Should certainly be an easier mod than, say,
dropping a Jap 5 speed box into it. Besides, the three speed Borg Warner
kinda suits the feel of the car.

For any Aussies here I just thought I'd share... This car reminds me
very much of an old (70's) Holden 6 (186 or 202 - closer to 186 in
capacity) with a Trimatic box. Of course the build quality of the Volvo
is better, it's more solid and there are more creature comforts like
leather interior, AC, power steering etc. but in terms of engine and box
they are almost identical in feel.

Ok, one last thing... I think I read somewhere that the mechanical
injectors can make a noise like faint tappet noise. Well I am hearing
faint tappet-like noises and assume that it is the injectors making it.
I don't think this is bad but wonder if others have experienced this?

Cheers,

Pete
 
Ok,

have been doing a bit of sniffing around re diff ratios and found this
at this page:

http://www.164club.org/techdata.html#Rear axle

Also discovered that I have the B30E high comp motor - sweet! Normally
when I buy a car impulsively I discover that I have all the undesirable
options! Oh, and discovered that mine is actually a '74, not a '75 as I
was initially told.

We have:

3.54:1 Diff Ratio
1974 B30A/M400 (Malaysia), B30A/BW35 (Malaysia), B30E/M400 (Scandinavia),
B30F/M400, B30E/M410, ****B30E/BW35 (Australia)****

We want:

3.73:1 Diff Ratio
1972 B30A/M400 (Scandinavia), B30A/M410, ****B30A/BW35 (Australia)****,
B30E/M400,
B30E/M410, B30F/M400, B30F/M410


So if I can find a diff out of a 1972 model 164e I will raise the
gearing by (3.73/3.54*100)-100% = 5.4%. Perhaps this appears to be not
worth doing but I think it may just do the trick both for fuel economy
and noise at highway speeds. Currently the tacho shows just under
3100rpm at 100k/h. The proposed gearing change would reduce that to 2940rpm.

So... Anyone in Aus got what I need?

Cheers,

Pete
 
Pete said:
Ok,

have been doing a bit of sniffing around re diff ratios and found this
at this page:

http://www.164club.org/techdata.html#Rear axle

Also discovered that I have the B30E high comp motor - sweet! Normally
when I buy a car impulsively I discover that I have all the undesirable
options! Oh, and discovered that mine is actually a '74, not a '75 as I
was initially told.

We have:

3.54:1 Diff Ratio
1974 B30A/M400 (Malaysia), B30A/BW35 (Malaysia), B30E/M400 (Scandinavia),
B30F/M400, B30E/M410, ****B30E/BW35 (Australia)****

We want:

3.73:1 Diff Ratio
1972 B30A/M400 (Scandinavia), B30A/M410, ****B30A/BW35 (Australia)****,
B30E/M400,
B30E/M410, B30F/M400, B30F/M410

So if I can find a diff out of a 1972 model 164e I will raise the
gearing by (3.73/3.54*100)-100% = 5.4%. Perhaps this appears to be not
worth doing but I think it may just do the trick both for fuel economy
and noise at highway speeds. Currently the tacho shows just under
3100rpm at 100k/h. The proposed gearing change would reduce that to 2940rpm.

So... Anyone in Aus got what I need?

Cheers,

Pete
Click to expand...

If you have a 3.54, going to a 3.73 is the wrong direction.... There
really isn't anything you can do to lower your highway revs, short of
changing the transmission. Volvo has 3.31 gears (used in later manual
transmission 240s) and even 3.15, but you'll need to put these "guts"
inside your diff housing.

The injectors are usually quieter than the engine - so your tappet noise
is probably the tappets. Oiling of the cam area is the one weak point
of this engine (and the 4 cylinder version too).

--
Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

NOTE: new address!!
Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
 
Mike F said:
If you have a 3.54, going to a 3.73 is the wrong direction....
Click to expand...

Correct. I run 2.47 gears in my 264. No, that's not a typo. :-)
There
really isn't anything you can do to lower your highway revs, short of
changing the transmission. Volvo has 3.31 gears (used in later manual
transmission 240s) and even 3.15, but you'll need to put these "guts"
inside your diff housing.
Click to expand...

IIRC, the Volvo diffs from 1, 2 and 7 series are all essentially Dana
30 series. The Dana 30 is also used in some Jeeps, and can be had in
ratios of 3.07 and 2.73.

Note that the Dana 30 series run one offset of hemisphere for ratios
of 3.73 and shorter and a different one for 3.54 and taller. The
crownwheel and pinion set from a Jeep should theoretically bolt
straight into a Volvo provided that you have the correct hemisphere.

Because the salisbury style axle housing requires special tools and
shims, this is a job for a specialist...
 
Sorry Mike, my bad!
Correct. I run 2.47 gears in my 264. No, that's not a typo. :-)
Click to expand...

And how's that both around town and on the highway? And fuel
consumption? Sounds like a fairly radical mod from 3.54/3.73.

Perhaps I should try for 3.07? I found this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33731&item=2457553118

Any ideas on whether it will fit? I read your comment on the Dana 30
offsets below but am still trying to get my head around shorter and
taller. Correct me if I'm wrong but taller means lower ratio, right? ie.
3.07 gives taller gearing than 3.54 so the offsets should be the same
for these two?

The ebay item above also mentions "high pinion" and "27 spline axles"....?

Thanks for all the pointers so far.

Pete
 
Pete said:
Sorry Mike, my bad!


And how's that both around town and on the highway? And fuel
consumption? Sounds like a fairly radical mod from 3.54/3.73.

Perhaps I should try for 3.07? I found this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33731&item=2457553118

Any ideas on whether it will fit? I read your comment on the Dana 30
offsets below but am still trying to get my head around shorter and
taller. Correct me if I'm wrong but taller means lower ratio, right? ie.
3.07 gives taller gearing than 3.54 so the offsets should be the same
for these two?

The ebay item above also mentions "high pinion" and "27 spline axles"....?

Thanks for all the pointers so far.

Pete
Click to expand...

Because the gears are referring to reductions, higher numerically is
lower gearing. Volvo had 2 different final drives, (they called them
1030 and 1031) they used different gear sets. In the "old" days, the
1030 was for the 4 cylinders, 1031 for the sixes. This maybe the
difference in "offset of hemisphere" as mentioned by athol. The 1031
type was in the higher ratios (lower numerically), and was in Volvo's
words "somewhat stronger". However, by the end there was some crossover
in the middle ratios, 3.91 and 3.73 were both available for both types,
and maybe some others too.

Also, as mentioned, installing a ring and pinion is a job that requires
precision measuring tools, shims etc. to get the clearances and contact
areas set perfectly, or the gears will howl or even grind themselves to
pieces.

--
Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

NOTE: new address!!
Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
 
And how's that both around town and on the highway? And fuel
consumption? Sounds like a fairly radical mod from 3.54/3.73.
Click to expand...

Well, if you looked at the link in my signature, you might have
found out why I run the 2.47. :-)

The 350 Chev gets similar economy with the 2.47 gears to the
B27E with 3.54 gears... The 2.47 gears are in a Ford 9" diff...
Perhaps I should try for 3.07? I found this on ebay:

Any ideas on whether it will fit? I read your comment on the Dana 30
offsets below but am still trying to get my head around shorter and
taller. Correct me if I'm wrong but taller means lower ratio, right? ie.
3.07 gives taller gearing than 3.54 so the offsets should be the same
for these two?
Click to expand...

Taller means a _smaller_ reduction (smaller number) which is
considered to be a _higher_ ratio, not lower. Confusing, huh?

I think that the use of "higher" comes from the fact that the
vehicle speed will be higher at the same engine revs. Back in
the 1970s and 1980s, there used to be ads for "high speed diff
conversions" for vans, where they fitted taller gears...
The ebay item above also mentions "high pinion" and "27 spline axles"....?
Click to expand...

High pinion is useless. This is a front diff for a 4WD, with the
pinion above the axles. The Volvo diffs are _low pinion_ or
_conventional pinion_. The high pinion actually turns the
opposite way, and is completely the wrong shape to fit.

IIRC, all Volvo axles are 27 spline. That's normal for all Dana 30
AFAIK.

On a related topic, does anybody know how much longer a 7 series
axle (shaft, not housing) is than a 2 series?
 
Ok, one last thing... I think I read somewhere that the mechanical
injectors can make a noise like faint tappet noise. Well I am hearing
faint tappet-like noises and assume that it is the injectors making it.
I don't think this is bad but wonder if others have experienced this?
Click to expand...

The injector noise can be replicated by switching on the ignition and
opening the throttlevalve. No way you will hear this with the engine
running. Tappetlike noises are often due to the timingwheel.The fiber
camshaftwheel could be on it's way out, the steel version will never be
quiet.
/Marten
 
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