1993 Volvo 850: Keep or Sell?

[Ted Adlam]

My '93 850GLT has suffered some horrendous repairs in the past 5 years and
from searching the archives it would seem that the problems I've had are
fairly typical (auto transmission and A/C). Now I am sorting out whether to
keep the car or stop the bleeding by trading for something else.

Perhaps there are other early model year 850 owners out there who have faced
this decision? Below is the summary of what I've spent on the car in the
past 6 years--in the case the Excel formatting doesn't show properly in the
text body, there is a link below to the actual Excel file. Major elements
are $3k for tranny and $3k for A/C (and I have a slow leak problem now which
is likely to be the evaporator again--another $1k+).

http://members.cox.net/ted.adlam/Volvo_850_Service_History.xls

The car is in extremely good cosmetic condition (Arizona car, garaged and
parked in shade during day) and low miles @ 57k. Here is a photo:
http://members.cox.net/ted.adlam/volvo2.JPG. My hunch is that I should
just keep it and budget for $1.5k/yr unscheduled maintenance...which gives
me a total cost of ownership well below what any new car would be on account
of the depreciation effect. In the case of the tranny, checking the fluid
regularly and performing a full power flush/replace of the ATF once in while
will hopefully avoid future tranny problems. But if other 850 owners (or
ex-850 owners) have tried this route and been disappointed I would consider
changing my view. Maybe it's time to cut my losses?

Thanks, Ted.

=====================================================================

Nov. 99 A/C and misc $ 51 $
330
Mar. 00 A/C $ 137
May 00 A/C evaporator $ 1,101
Feb 01 Pwr. Seat + misc $ 82 $
210
July 01 Major Service $ 1,105 $
100
Feb 02 Service $ 45
Jun 02 Fuel pump $ 45 $
475
Dec 02 Battery Cable $ 181
May 03 A/C + Brakes $ 54 $
780
May 03 A/C, fluid flush/replace $ 220
$ 1,690
Aug 03 warranty (fuel pump)
Sept 03 pwr antenna, Wheel bearing $ 582
Feb 04 50k service $ 143
May 04 Motor mounts, ATF flush $ 150
$ 561
Jul 04 Transmission $ 50 $
3,080
Oct 04 Radiator $ - $
1,200
Totals $ 1,856 $ 10,686


Duration = 6 years
Mileage = 36k
Miles/year = 6k
Scheduled Maint./year = $310
Repair cost/year = $1781
Repair cost/mile = $.30

 

[Stephen Henning]

My '93 850GLT has suffered some horrendous repairs in the past 5 years and
from searching the archives it would seem that the problems I've had are
fairly typical (auto transmission and A/C). Now I am sorting out whether to
keep the car or stop the bleeding by trading for something else.

Duration = 6 years
Mileage = 36k
Miles/year = 6k
Scheduled Maint./year = $310
Repair cost/year = $1781
Repair cost/mile = $.30

Your list of repairs looks fairly typical for a higher mileage '93. The
AT usually made it 80k mi before going. The AC problems could be real,
but if the car had been in an accident and the system had been open to
the atmosphere, those problems would have occurred. You have fixed the
big ticket items. The engine is the strong part. Buying a new one
could just be buying the same problems. I kept my '93 850 for 175,000
miles and 8 years. The AT was the only big ticket item and it was
covered by the 100k warranty I purchased. I bought the warranty for
$1000 because it was a new untested model. Now we know about the only
weakness was the AT.

 

[Rob Guenther]

The A/C system is another 850 weakness, at least here in Ontario (where we
only run our A/C's for about 3-4 months of the year - lots of 10+ year old
cars won't have functional A/C any more up here, this all according to a
Volvo garage technician)... When we were getting our A/C fixed on our 960
(pipe had to be changed out), the guy doing the work was telling me how the
960 had a much better design then the 850, and that he remembered summers
where the garage was filled with 850's needing new evaporators and other
work done.

Now that he's had the A/C done as well, car should be good to go, tho him
saying that it's still leaking is not encouraging.

 

[Stephen Henning]

The A/C system is another 850 weakness, at least here in Ontario (where we
only run our A/C's for about 3-4 months of the year

That is one reason I leave the AC on year around, even on days like
today when it never got up to freezing. I know that the compressor
won't come on very often this time of year, but just once or twice a
week is enough. Someone once told me that the seals get dry and leak if
the AC isn't used. It seems to make some since, because refrigerators
typically are scrapped because the interior shelves break, not because
of the refrigeration system failing.

 

[Rob Guenther]

That's exactly what happens to cars here, the system leaks due to dried out
seals.... The problem is, there is a thermal switch on Volvo's and in the
winter here its generally too cold for the ECC to allow the A/C to come on.

Considering our A/C lasted 9 years before we had to put the leak stopping
dye in it, then another 3 more years until a pipe had to be fixed, I'd say
the Volvo A/C's, at least in the 960's are pretty solid.... VW's are the
other vehicles I am familiar with, and NO VW of that vintage has working A/C
around here.... at least that I have seen.

 

[James Sweet]

That is one reason I leave the AC on year around, even on days like
today when it never got up to freezing. I know that the compressor
won't come on very often this time of year, but just once or twice a
week is enough. Someone once told me that the seals get dry and leak if
the AC isn't used. It seems to make some since, because refrigerators
typically are scrapped because the interior shelves break, not because
of the refrigeration system failing.

What's it do to your gas mileage to leave it on all the time? Running it for
a few minutes every couple weeks is enough to keep the seals wet, the
compressors have a finite life as well you know, and running them all the
time won't help that.

Automotive AC and household refrigerators are a world apart, yeah the basic
principal of operation is the same, but a refrigerator is plumbed in copper
with all soldered joints, there's no rubber seals to go bad. They do fail
occasionally but it's usually that the valves wear out and don't seal
properly so the thing gets less and less efficient until it's running all
the time.

 

[Stephen Henning]

What's it do to your gas mileage to leave it on all the time? Running it for
a few minutes every couple weeks is enough to keep the seals wet, the
compressors have a finite life as well you know, and running them all the
time won't help that.

Nothing since the compressor only runs on demand and the demand in
winter is very rare. It is used when the defogger is turned on which is
as it should be, and it comes on when the car sits in the sun and
actually get a little bit warm. Other than that the compressor is not
running. That may be a few minutes every couple weeks. But if you turn
the AC off, it can't come on at all. When it does come on, it is more
economical to use the AC than open the windows. That reduces the mpg
even more.

 

[Mike F]

Nothing since the compressor only runs on demand and the demand in
winter is very rare. It is used when the defogger is turned on which is
as it should be, and it comes on when the car sits in the sun and
actually get a little bit warm. Other than that the compressor is not
running. That may be a few minutes every couple weeks. But if you turn
the AC off, it can't come on at all. When it does come on, it is more
economical to use the AC than open the windows. That reduces the mpg
even more.
--
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA, USA
Owned '67,'68,'71,'74,'79,'81,'87,'93,'95 & '02 Volvos.
The '67,'74,'79,'87,'95 and '02 through European Delivery.
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/volvo.html

On automatic climate controlled cars the A/C switch isn't really an
on/off switch as it is on a 740 (or 240). It's more of an
enable/disable switch. If the car is colder than the setting on the
temperature dials, the A/C won't come on no matter how hot it is
outside. And if the ambient temperature is below about 5 C (= 40 F)
then the rest pressure in the system is lower than the trip pressure on
the low pressure switch, and it won't come on no matter what. The
defrost position will turn the A/C on even if you have it disabled,
provided the system pressure is above the low pressure switch cutoff
point. Of course engine heat can raise system pressure slightly on cold
days allowing the A/C to come on at colder temperatures than listed.

--
Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)

 

[Ted Adlam]

Thanks all for the inputs. What I am hearing reinforces my thinking that
keeping my aging (but low mileage) 850 should be the right choice. And the
bit about the A/C compressor seals dring out makes sense--and I had thought
I was *extending* the life of my A/C system by turning it off except when
absolutely necessary--evidently the reverse is true. Since I live in
Phoenix, I can be sure that the compressor will cycle on year-round as long
as I leave it in automatic mode.

Ted.