240 Hard clutch pedal

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(Just) Allan

Hi all...

Our 1978 244 (with 4 speed gearbox) was fine yesterday. This morning
the clutch pedal has gone "hard". I put the quote marks, because it's
not hard to press down - it just "feels" hard... (Yeah, I know that
makes no sense.)

First gear and reverse feel just like they always have, but with 2, 3
& 4 - press the pedal and it feels... I don't know - hard! The fluid
in the clutch master cylinder is a little low too. It still drives
fine.

Any ideas?

Allan.
 
I'd have to drive it I think to make sense of that, there's no
difference as far as the clutch is concerned what gear it's in, unless
your tranny mount has broken and is somehow causing something to bind.
Click to expand...

Hm... It could just be! The mount has been covered in oil for a few
years. It did look ok the last time I wiped it off though, so I'll
crawl under tomorrow and have a look.

The pedal kind of feels like when someone doesn't bleed their brakes
correctly.

Allan.
 
(Just) Allan said:
Hi all...

Our 1978 244 (with 4 speed gearbox) was fine yesterday. This morning
the clutch pedal has gone "hard". I put the quote marks, because it's
not hard to press down - it just "feels" hard... (Yeah, I know that
makes no sense.)

First gear and reverse feel just like they always have, but with 2, 3
& 4 - press the pedal and it feels... I don't know - hard! The fluid
in the clutch master cylinder is a little low too. It still drives
fine.

Any ideas?

Allan.
Click to expand...


I'd have to drive it I think to make sense of that, there's no
difference as far as the clutch is concerned what gear it's in, unless
your tranny mount has broken and is somehow causing something to bind.
 
I'd have to drive it I think to make sense of that, there's no
difference as far as the clutch is concerned what gear it's in, unless
your tranny mount has broken and is somehow causing something to bind.
Click to expand...

Oh - and later today, I noticed I can feel it in 1st as well, but is
still more noticeable in the other gears. Also, once I parked on
level ground, the brake fluid level is at minimum. (It was topped up
12 months ago and I haven't noticed it move until now.)

Allan.
 
(Just) Allan said:
Oh - and later today, I noticed I can feel it in 1st as well, but is
still more noticeable in the other gears. Also, once I parked on
level ground, the brake fluid level is at minimum. (It was topped up
12 months ago and I haven't noticed it move until now.)
Click to expand...

If the fluid level had anything to do with it all the gears would feel
the same. Oil on the mounts is not good. Deformed mounts can
dramatically affect how the car will shift. On the 240 I changed my
mounts (all 3) and used Syn fluid and it shifts like new now. Was
missing an ocassional shift before the change and have not missed one
after.






__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
 
(Just) Allan said:
Hm... It could just be! The mount has been covered in oil for a few
years. It did look ok the last time I wiped it off though, so I'll
crawl under tomorrow and have a look.

The pedal kind of feels like when someone doesn't bleed their brakes
correctly.

Allan.
Click to expand...


It's a cable operated clutch though right? Maybe the pressure plate or
release bearing is damaged?
 
Are we talking about the transmission mounts and engine mounts? As What
I am experiencing is hard to get shifter to move to the number 1 spot
most of the time but can suddenly decide to behave and run smooth
depending on its mood ( I think) LOL

BTW I know about the nylon guide stop with nut for adjustment so that
one doesn't accidentally shift to reverse while meaning to be going in
to first gear, adjusted that thing a few times now, wondering if I too
have bad mounts?

Dan
 
Are we talking about the transmission mounts and engine mounts? As What
I am experiencing is hard to get shifter to move to the number 1 spot
most of the time but can suddenly decide to behave and run smooth
depending on its mood ( I think) LOL

BTW I know about the nylon guide stop with nut for adjustment so that
one doesn't accidentally shift to reverse while meaning to be going in
to first gear, adjusted that thing a few times now, wondering if I too
have bad mounts?

Dan
Click to expand...

I have to nearly come to full stop before selecting 1st gear - and
that's been wiith both the 240s we've owned. I think that's normal.
 
I agree that's been the same for me but what's this about a hard clutch
pedal? And the answer was something about mounts? When I gun the engine
with flywheel engaged to clutch plate the shifter sure moves (jolts)
around in the shifter area, seems like it's really not normal. So
basically I am experiencing symptoms that would appear to have little to
do with the clutch pedal itself, rather the shifter and/or linkage stuff
going down into the tranny itself. Can anyone offer any solution or
maybe why this is happening? And BTW I have adjusted the guide that
stops you from accidentally shifting into reverse a number of times now
and I still get many instances where it's very difficult to locate the
first gear.

Thanks for any and all help/advice

Dan 1988 245DL
 
Dan Harrington said:
I agree that's been the same for me but what's this about a hard clutch
pedal? And the answer was something about mounts? When I gun the engine
with flywheel engaged to clutch plate the shifter sure moves (jolts) around
in the shifter area, seems like it's really not normal. So basically I am
experiencing symptoms that would appear to have little to do with the
clutch pedal itself, rather the shifter and/or linkage stuff going down
into the tranny itself. Can anyone offer any solution or maybe why this is
happening? And BTW I have adjusted the guide that stops you from
accidentally shifting into reverse a number of times now and I still get
many instances where it's very difficult to locate the first gear.

Thanks for any and all help/advice

Dan 1988 245DL
Click to expand...
That sure sounds like a broken mount at the tail of the transmission,
variously known as a transmission mount or rear engine mount. Fortunately,
it is not shockingly expensive for either the part or the labor to replace
it, and confirmation is as easy as getting under the car at the back of the
transmission and looking at it. It is an easy enough DIY job (best done with
the aid of a floor jack or transmission jack, though), or should be under an
hour labor by a professional.

Mike
 
symptoms:
-Hard shifting
-Excessive movement of the shift lever

I would inspect all three mounts (the tranny mount is sometimes
referred to as the rear motor mount). It's a fairly easy matter to
visually inspect the mounts. New ones have perpendicular sides to the
mounting surfaces. When they got old and/or have been exposed to oils
and greases they turn into more of a parallelogram shape or are
bulge-y.

Low fluid or bad fluid in the gear box will also cause stiff shifting,
but your symptoms point towards mounts. It doesn't take much
misalignment to cause hard shifting with a manual box.



Dan Harrington said:
I agree that's been the same for me but what's this about a hard clutch
pedal? And the answer was something about mounts? When I gun the engine
with flywheel engaged to clutch plate the shifter sure moves (jolts)
around in the shifter area, seems like it's really not normal. So
basically I am experiencing symptoms that would appear to have little to
do with the clutch pedal itself, rather the shifter and/or linkage stuff
going down into the tranny itself. Can anyone offer any solution or
maybe why this is happening? And BTW I have adjusted the guide that
stops you from accidentally shifting into reverse a number of times now
and I still get many instances where it's very difficult to locate the
first gear.

Thanks for any and all help/advice

Dan 1988 245DL
Click to expand...

__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
 
Thanks Randy and Mike I'm going to further inspect this, while just
today the tech where I work inspected the car (for free) and quickly
spotted a few more issues, they are as follows: Steering column u-joint
linkage is ready to snap (can this be a easy DIY project)? Then both tie
rods ready fall out, brake pads also worn to nearly metal contact with
rotors in the front. A while back I replaced both rear calipers, rotors
and pads, pads and rotors I went dealer quality this time. Calipers were
rebuilt Canadian Tire - maybe Fenco brand.) Then they pointed out that
another Tech from the same garage had helped me out with exhaust repairs
and obviously fouled that up because there are small leaks almost at
every connection, and the last pipe hangs too close to back axle/diff.
Anyway does any one have any advice on tackling these jobs except the
brakes that's obvious.

Thanks,

Dan
 
Dan Harrington said:
Thanks Randy and Mike I'm going to further inspect this, while just
today the tech where I work inspected the car (for free) and quickly
spotted a few more issues, they are as follows: Steering column u-joint
linkage is ready to snap (can this be a easy DIY project)?
Click to expand...
Yes- that should be easy to change. Try a wrecking yard to find a used
one. I can't remember hearing of one failing except in an accident. It
is a serious safety issue!
Then both tie
rods ready fall out,
Click to expand...
A serious safety issue again.
...brake pads also worn to nearly metal contact with
rotors in the front.
Click to expand...
Change those before rotors are damaged! This, again, is a serious
safety issue.

These need to be dealt with, and based on your description, I would be
quite hesitant to drive the car before they were repaired.
A while back I replaced both rear calipers, rotors
and pads, pads and rotors I went dealer quality this time.
Click to expand...
Ouch! There are other sources for quality brake parts without going to
the dealer. Kragen has the front calipers with a limited lifetime
warranty for about $40 each. ALso check with FCP Groton, and other
sources.

Calipers were
rebuilt Canadian Tire - maybe Fenco brand.) Then they pointed out that
another Tech from the same garage had helped me out with exhaust repairs
and obviously fouled that up because there are small leaks almost at
every connection, and the last pipe hangs too close to back axle/diff.
Click to expand...
Man! And I thought my car had problems! If the pipes fit correctly you
can have a muffler shop replace the clamps which should solve that
ptoblem. Sometimes, the clamps some shops use are cheap and can't take
the force necessary to seal the joints.
Anyway does any one have any advice on tackling these jobs except the
brakes that's obvious.
Click to expand...
Uhh... Don't bring it over here! ;-)


__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
 
Hi all...

Our 1978 244 (with 4 speed gearbox) was fine yesterday. This morning
the clutch pedal has gone "hard". I put the quote marks, because it's
not hard to press down - it just "feels" hard... (Yeah, I know that
makes no sense.)

First gear and reverse feel just like they always have, but with 2, 3
& 4 - press the pedal and it feels... I don't know - hard! The fluid
in the clutch master cylinder is a little low too. It still drives
fine.

Any ideas?

Allan.
Click to expand...

The fault turned out to be:

1. Degradation of the high pressure master to slave cylinder hose.
2. Failure of the slave cylinder (leaking).
3. Master cylinder was replaced at the same time.

I drove for 35 minutes to the mechanic, where he then got in the car,
and the clutch went rock hard. I had driven that far with no symptoms
except as listed above. The thing totally failed - after I arrived at
the safety of the workshop!

Wow - what an easy job to change those three things too. Apart from
the fluid all down my shirt that is.

Allan.
 
Hi! Randy I am in the Northern part of the Americas those prices you
have quoted for limited life time warranty calipers at $40.00 just can't
be had here, I'm looking at cheapies at $65.00 Cdn. with warranty about
1 year (if I'm lucky) and probably only if installed by a proper garage.
Otherwise warranty backs down to 3-6 months which is exactly what I
decided to do this time around. TieRods were $14.00 ea. taxes in, again
with about 3-6 months warranty - incidentally they were about 1/4"
longer than old ones and the lock nut would not budge to offset for this
1/4" difference - I have no access to a torch (yet) so have not so far
made any changes after installing them in my drive way. I can feel the
toe is off but feel no shredding over the tire's tread so far. The only
thing after setting the toe is finding a used steering rod U-joint and
installing it. Oops, just one more little issue there appears to be a
nagging intermittent vacuum leak causing the 02 sensor to call for more
fuel. This has so far been very hard to locate, it has been more
prominent when first early morning cold start up especially the colder
day it is outside, any ideas here?


Dan
 
Dan,

A trick I have used successfully for loosening nuts (at least ones that are
in the open, like the tie rod lock nuts) is:

Get a hefty pair of vice-grips, and clamp them down as hard as you can on
the nut. This will elastically deform it so the threads bottom out in the
direction you are clamping it and open up a shade opposite that direction.
Spray some penetrant oil on the threads on each side if you can reach them,
or on just whatever part you can access. Let it sit that way a couple
minutes, move to another pair of faces on the nut and repeat. Do the last
face if you can, and give it a try.

Now, if we could only get to exhaust manifold nuts to do that....

Mike
 
Thanks, I since sweet-talked our frontend tech to doing this meaningful
task for me and he did so on his hoist - showed me how freaking easy it
was/is when it's in doors (warm and toasty) and not a recently rained on
pavement (my driveway at the moment I was attempting the dirty task) he
did struggle a little and did exactly what I requested and it has
backfired right in my face as I have guessed incorrectly at the 1/4"
difference in overall total length between old tie rod and replacement
rod. Things have gone from slightly noticable to tires squealing and
steering wheek feeling strange while driving. Funny thing is he was wary
of this very issue but I said I could not afford an alignment right now
at $90.00 and wanted to offset the tierod length by a simply by-eye
method only. What the heck am I supposed to do now? I am right now as I
type (in the dark) going back out under the car on my drive way and
going to try and reverse what he as altered then I will try and find a
cheaper place to have an alignment. He also says I have to have a 4
wheel alignment and I wonder how populer 4 wheel alignments were in the
late eighties? I can't help thinking this might be a ploy t get more
labor dollars for the service in general what do you all think about that?

Dan
 
Look for a more firendly shop for the alignment. The modern electronic
equipment is attached to all four wheels. Some cars are adjustable
front and rear, but with the 240 only the front is adjusted. Some
shops charge the same one way or the other to help pay for the new
boat.. err... I mean new equipment.



Dan Harrington said:
Thanks, I since sweet-talked our frontend tech to doing this meaningful
task for me and he did so on his hoist - showed me how freaking easy it
was/is when it's in doors (warm and toasty) and not a recently rained on
pavement (my driveway at the moment I was attempting the dirty task) he
did struggle a little and did exactly what I requested and it has
backfired right in my face as I have guessed incorrectly at the 1/4"
difference in overall total length between old tie rod and replacement
rod. Things have gone from slightly noticable to tires squealing and
steering wheek feeling strange while driving. Funny thing is he was wary
of this very issue but I said I could not afford an alignment right now
at $90.00 and wanted to offset the tierod length by a simply by-eye
method only. What the heck am I supposed to do now? I am right now as I
type (in the dark) going back out under the car on my drive way and
going to try and reverse what he as altered then I will try and find a
cheaper place to have an alignment. He also says I have to have a 4
wheel alignment and I wonder how populer 4 wheel alignments were in the
late eighties? I can't help thinking this might be a ploy t get more
labor dollars for the service in general what do you all think about that?

Dan
Click to expand...

__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 245 Estate - '93 965 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
 
Dan Harrington said:
Funny thing is he was wary of this very issue but I said I could not
afford an alignment right now at $90.00 and wanted to offset the tierod
length by a simply by-eye method only. What the heck am I supposed to do
now? I am right now as I type (in the dark) going back out under the car
on my drive way and going to try and reverse what he as altered then I
will try and find a cheaper place to have an alignment. He also says I
have to have a 4 wheel alignment and I wonder how populer 4 wheel
alignments were in the late eighties? I can't help thinking this might be
a ploy t get more labor dollars for the service in general what do you all
think about that?

Dan
Click to expand...
No - the 240 just takes toe-in adjustment, and only on the front. There are
other more obscure adjustments, but since you didn't mess with anything
related to those.... You can get it reasonably close with masking tape and a
straight, lightly travelled road. Put strips of tape from sidewall to
sodewall across each front tire and drive a quarter mile or so. If the
inside edges are wearing faster than the outside, the tires are toed out;
adjust to bring the fronts closer together. If the outside edges are worn
instead, the tires are toed in too much. Adjust to spread the fronts more.
Work to center the wheel as you are doing this, and after an hour or so you
will be close enough. When the tape wears the same on the inner edges and
outer edges, you are good to go.

Mike
 
Thanks very much Mike, I do want to try this but don't I have to lift the
car up each trip to adjust, I mean isn't a lot easier to spin the inner
tierod with out the weight of car on it? and essentially will the tire be
wanting to move in or out but resisting it while resting on the ground? Boy
if this works out I'll be quite happy having not spent anything other than
an hour or two of my time. I'll advance a Kudos to you Michael because it
sounds very practical. Boy I could have used this type of valuable help
before I got messed up with after market clutch cable - ended up costing me
a whopping $575.00 Cdn. due to being 1/2" or so too short and if I had
trusted even one of the 2 other mechanics who told me I needed a clutch when
it was only the cable from NAPA was too short my tally for error may have
gone to closer to $875.00 CDN. Those pricks will not compensate me even one
dime for their error just returned my original fifty some odd dollars for
the short cable. As it is the third guy I used (who I know) who was honest
figured that the cable was wrong but only after beginning to take down the
transmission to view the clutch which resulted in some broken parts in the
shifter mechanism due to fatigue (I guess). And the shifter boot doesnt hold
well any more either and I think minor exhaust fumes get through to the
inner cabin. Anyway shifter parts to get shifter in to reverse that broke
tacked on an additional $200.00 parts and labour, loss of car another
$150.00 for 2 weeks, then about $175.00 for the actual clutch cable from
Volvo including labour. So what have I done since, I've called Napa every
time I knew they sold parts I required and then told them I was buying those
parts somewhere else in retaliation even when the price may be higher,
explaining to the sales guy about their lack of customer service regarding
the fiasco I had with clutch cable.

There that's my latest fun with bad replacement parts from the aftermarket
world, much like the underworld I suppose LOL

Regards,

Dan
 
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