760 Stereo question (I really did try to solve it myself!)

[blurp]

Hi all, back again with another question regarding my 1988 760GLE.

I want to move the Eclipse CD/Receiver from my 240 into the 760. The
amateur installers (at Kromer radio for those of you in Toronto) had
spliced the wires from the Eclipse harness right into the 240 wiring
(that's not what made them amateurs). I have carefully removed the
harness with as much wire as possible AND left the 240 wires marked.

A picture of the stereo I am pulling out of the 760 is here:
http://directautogroupllc.com/89765/PB070026.JPG

As you can see the unit is two separate parts:
1. A tuner with a digital display, a graphic equalizer, and a numeric
keypad. This item is heavy like an amplifier and has an anti-theft
code.
2. A non-functioning cassette deck also with digital display. This
item is light.

I have seen lots of information (in connection with stereo components
that don't appear to match mine) that refers to a separate amplifier
near the driver's left knee in the footwell. I cannot find it and
suspect that this unit may have the amp built in and there isn't a
third piece to be found.

I saw a big silver box with a very wide harmonica connection to it but
I believe this is the ICU. There is a very plain black box that is
about 2" high x 2"wide x 4" long and is labeled as Made in Japan and a
part number 1384599 that I have been unable to get a translation for
but it really doesn't look like an amp (no cooling fins or vents).

Anyone know if this stereo has the amp integrated? It sure would be
easiest to simply get the pin-out for the plug/socket it's wired to
and splice away.

Thanks,
blurp

 

[James Sweet]

Hi all, back again with another question regarding my 1988 760GLE.

I want to move the Eclipse CD/Receiver from my 240 into the 760. The
amateur installers (at Kromer radio for those of you in Toronto) had
spliced the wires from the Eclipse harness right into the 240 wiring
(that's not what made them amateurs). I have carefully removed the
harness with as much wire as possible AND left the 240 wires marked.

A picture of the stereo I am pulling out of the 760 is here:
http://directautogroupllc.com/89765/PB070026.JPG

As you can see the unit is two separate parts:
1. A tuner with a digital display, a graphic equalizer, and a numeric
keypad. This item is heavy like an amplifier and has an anti-theft
code.
2. A non-functioning cassette deck also with digital display. This
item is light.

I have seen lots of information (in connection with stereo components
that don't appear to match mine) that refers to a separate amplifier
near the driver's left knee in the footwell. I cannot find it and
suspect that this unit may have the amp built in and there isn't a
third piece to be found.

I saw a big silver box with a very wide harmonica connection to it but
I believe this is the ICU. There is a very plain black box that is
about 2" high x 2"wide x 4" long and is labeled as Made in Japan and a
part number 1384599 that I have been unable to get a translation for
but it really doesn't look like an amp (no cooling fins or vents).

Anyone know if this stereo has the amp integrated? It sure would be
easiest to simply get the pin-out for the plug/socket it's wired to
and splice away.

Thanks,
blurp

Ah, that's the newer dash style, now it escapes me what it looks like with a
standard height one piece stereo, I should have paid attention when I was at
the wrecking yard a few days ago as they had some cars with that same style
dash.

If yours has the separate amp, it would be mounted on a bracket up under the
dash on the driver's side, right under the steering shaft. The two piece
stereo may not have used that though.

 

[blurp]

Ah, that's the newer dash style, now it escapes me what it looks like with a
standard height one piece stereo, I should have paid attention when I was at
the wrecking yard a few days ago as they had some cars with that same style
dash.

If yours has the separate amp, it would be mounted on a bracket up under the
dash on the driver's side, right under the steering shaft. The two piece
stereo may not have used that though.

Ok, if the amp I'm looking for looks like the one in this picture (the
smaller piece):
http://i18.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/07/75/54_1_b.JPG

or this:
http://i13.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/02/7f/e6_1_b.JPG

or this:
http://216.218.211.187/~ashman/ebay/startronics/relist/IMG_0393.jpg
http://216.218.211.187/~ashman/ebay/startronics/relist/IMG_0394.jpg

then, so far, I'm in luck because I haven't seen any of these suspects
under there.

blurp

 

[Mike F]

Hi all, back again with another question regarding my 1988 760GLE.

I want to move the Eclipse CD/Receiver from my 240 into the 760. The
amateur installers (at Kromer radio for those of you in Toronto) had
spliced the wires from the Eclipse harness right into the 240 wiring
(that's not what made them amateurs). I have carefully removed the
harness with as much wire as possible AND left the 240 wires marked.

A picture of the stereo I am pulling out of the 760 is here:
http://directautogroupllc.com/89765/PB070026.JPG

As you can see the unit is two separate parts:
1. A tuner with a digital display, a graphic equalizer, and a numeric
keypad. This item is heavy like an amplifier and has an anti-theft
code.
2. A non-functioning cassette deck also with digital display. This
item is light.

I have seen lots of information (in connection with stereo components
that don't appear to match mine) that refers to a separate amplifier
near the driver's left knee in the footwell. I cannot find it and
suspect that this unit may have the amp built in and there isn't a
third piece to be found.

I saw a big silver box with a very wide harmonica connection to it but
I believe this is the ICU. There is a very plain black box that is
about 2" high x 2"wide x 4" long and is labeled as Made in Japan and a
part number 1384599 that I have been unable to get a translation for
but it really doesn't look like an amp (no cooling fins or vents).

Anyone know if this stereo has the amp integrated? It sure would be
easiest to simply get the pin-out for the plug/socket it's wired to
and splice away.

Thanks,
blurp

The plain black box is the amplifier you seek.

--
Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)

 

[blurp]

The plain black box is the amplifier you seek.

Darn it all. That means I have to leave installation to the pros since
I don't think I'll be able to figure out all the wires.

Thanks,
blurp

 

[James Sweet]

Darn it all. That means I have to leave installation to the pros since
I don't think I'll be able to figure out all the wires.

Thanks,
blurp

Why? I really doubt the "pros" know anything people here can't teach you,
I've seen some horribly botched installs. Coming out of the amp (assuming
you've found the right box) should be 4 wires for the rear speakers, these
are the only wires you have to worry about, and you can figure out what
speaker they go to by touching them across a AA battery and listening for
the click. When you identify that much, double check the polarity by popping
off the speaker grill, when you get the speaker to pop outward when touched
to the battery you've got the polarity right.

 

[blurp]

Why? I really doubt the "pros" know anything people here can't teach you,
I've seen some horribly botched installs. Coming out of the amp (assuming
you've found the right box) should be 4 wires for the rear speakers, these
are the only wires you have to worry about, and you can figure out what
speaker they go to by touching them across a AA battery and listening for
the click. When you identify that much, double check the polarity by popping
off the speaker grill, when you get the speaker to pop outward when touched
to the battery you've got the polarity right.

Sounds like a plan! I have the harness that goes with the new unit and
the wire colours have been thoughtfully explained on a sticker on the
top of it. There are a few uses that I didn't recognize but I'll try
to get a list and find their meanings. What I suspect the pros will
have is some sort of key that explains which of the car's wires are
connected to the dimmer or the power antenna etc..

There's a useful list on the brickboard here:
http://brickboard.com/ARCHIVES/2000JAN/20063693.shtml

but I don't know if this is true for all models and all amp/radio
combinations.

I'll check some wires and see if it seems right...I want to bypass the
amp anyway because the unit I'm putting in has an integrated amp (and
I suspect one of the reasons the sound is so lousy in the car is this
buried amp).

Thanks,
blurp
ps after this I just have to get the horn and sunroof working and
it'll be like a brand new car!

 

[James Sweet]

Sounds like a plan! I have the harness that goes with the new unit and
the wire colours have been thoughtfully explained on a sticker on the
top of it. There are a few uses that I didn't recognize but I'll try
to get a list and find their meanings. What I suspect the pros will
have is some sort of key that explains which of the car's wires are
connected to the dimmer or the power antenna etc..

If they're anything like the "pros" I've encountered, they'll probably just
poke around with a multimeter and take a best guess. I've seen plenty of
"professionally" hacked up wiring harnesses in cars and wouldn't let one of
those boners touch my car.

There's a useful list on the brickboard here:
http://brickboard.com/ARCHIVES/2000JAN/20063693.shtml

but I don't know if this is true for all models and all amp/radio
combinations.

I'll check some wires and see if it seems right...I want to bypass the
amp anyway because the unit I'm putting in has an integrated amp (and
I suspect one of the reasons the sound is so lousy in the car is this
buried amp).

The amp should have a cable that plugs right into the stereo, if that's the
case you can just remove the whole amp and it should all just unplug.

Thanks,
blurp
ps after this I just have to get the horn and sunroof working and
it'll be like a brand new car!

The horn shouldn't be too hard, start by checking the wires right up by the
horn itself. What's wrong with the sunroof? Mechanical or electrical
problem?

 

[blurp]

If they're anything like the "pros" I've encountered, they'll probably just
poke around with a multimeter and take a best guess. I've seen plenty of
"professionally" hacked up wiring harnesses in cars and wouldn't let one of
those boners touch my car.

I agree, I'm hoping to avoid this option.

The amp should have a cable that plugs right into the stereo, if that's the
case you can just remove the whole amp and it should all just unplug.

That would be awesome.

The horn shouldn't be too hard, start by checking the wires right up by the
horn itself. What's wrong with the sunroof? Mechanical or electrical
problem?

The fellow who sold me the car told me the sunroof electrics were
intermittent... I have found them to be completely dead but haven't
had time to invest in it yet. I'd love to convert it to a crank like
in my 240. But one thing at a time. If the amp just unplugs and I can
splice wires in I'll be happy to pull the black box and roof-test it.

Cheers!
blurp

 

[James Sweet]

The fellow who sold me the car told me the sunroof electrics were
intermittent... I have found them to be completely dead but haven't
had time to invest in it yet. I'd love to convert it to a crank like
in my 240. But one thing at a time. If the amp just unplugs and I can
splice wires in I'll be happy to pull the black box and roof-test it.

Converting it to a crank is easy, though I went the other way around with my
740 and have been very pleased with it. There's a couple things to check,
pull the cover off the motor, you'll probably have to trim the headliner
under it because when the car was made the motor was in place before the
liner was put in, there's just cloth over it though, the backing board
itself has a cutout already. Check for voltage at the two wires going to the
motor when you press the switch, one wire should get power for open and the
other for close. There's a ground wire that attaches to the body up there,
if it's not connected well the motor won't work. If that's all good then the
most common problem is the lube gums up the limit microswitches in the
little gearbox, or sometimes the switches themselves fail.

The amp normally just plugs in, if you buy a wiring kit for the stereo for
that car it should come with a plug to plug into the harness where the amp
was.

 

[blurp]

Converting it to a crank is easy, though I went the other way around with my
740 and have been very pleased with it. There's a couple things to check,
pull the cover off the motor, you'll probably have to trim the headliner
under it because when the car was made the motor was in place before the
liner was put in, there's just cloth over it though, the backing board
itself has a cutout already. Check for voltage at the two wires going to the
motor when you press the switch, one wire should get power for open and the
other for close. There's a ground wire that attaches to the body up there,
if it's not connected well the motor won't work. If that's all good then the
most common problem is the lube gums up the limit microswitches in the
little gearbox, or sometimes the switches themselves fail.

The amp normally just plugs in, if you buy a wiring kit for the stereo for
that car it should come with a plug to plug into the harness where the amp
was.

I am counting on the sunroof problem to be something simple like a
loose ground wire or something. The seller told me that he was
sometimes able to get it open but would have to close it manually,
sounds like loose or diconnected electrics. I suppose it might be
something more serious but when you hit the switch you get nothing, no
sound, no apparent attempt to open the roof. I figure if it was jammed
or (gasp!) a cable was snapped at least the motor would try to do
something. Since it doesn't seem to even peep when the switch is
applied I figure it has to be electrical.

Of course, I figured I had a vacuum leak preventing my vents from
opening when I couldn't get any heat so my figurings don't always hold
much water. It's good to know I can cut the headliner there to expose
more of the motor.

As for the amp, I'm counting on there being a neat plug terminating
the wires at the amp so wiring new stuff will hopefully be easy. I
probably need to get some wire to extend from where the plug meets the
amp to the new stereo. I hope I don't have to peel apart any of the
thick ropes of wire and electrical tape.

I'll try look at it all on my lunch in an hour and let you know what I
see.

Thanks,
b

 

[blurp]

I am counting on the sunroof problem to be something simple like a
loose ground wire or something. The seller told me that he was
sometimes able to get it open but would have to close it manually,
sounds like loose or diconnected electrics. I suppose it might be
something more serious but when you hit the switch you get nothing, no
sound, no apparent attempt to open the roof. I figure if it was jammed
or (gasp!) a cable was snapped at least the motor would try to do
something. Since it doesn't seem to even peep when the switch is
applied I figure it has to be electrical.

Of course, I figured I had a vacuum leak preventing my vents from
opening when I couldn't get any heat so my figurings don't always hold
much water. It's good to know I can cut the headliner there to expose
more of the motor.

As for the amp, I'm counting on there being a neat plug terminating
the wires at the amp so wiring new stuff will hopefully be easy. I
probably need to get some wire to extend from where the plug meets the
amp to the new stereo. I hope I don't have to peel apart any of the
thick ropes of wire and electrical tape.

I'll try look at it all on my lunch in an hour and let you know what I
see.

Thanks,
b

Well the sunroof's working again (mostly) after a near disaster.
Turned out the problem was with the switch...the small plastic barbell
in the rocker switch (that supplanted the fiddly spring-loaded
ballbearings in the 240 switches) had one side flattened and one of
the contacts had fallen out of place. The switches don't come out like
in a 240 so it took a fair bit of fiddling. Slowly climbing the
learning curve.

Of course, I took the motor out too so I could check the wires and
engage it without having the resistance of the sunroof. So when the
power started flowing and the motor started working I foolishly tried
to simply hold it in place to test it. This resulted in only one of
the wormgears engaging and twisting the sunroof with one corner up and
one corner down (ugh). With a fair bit of hit-and-miss I was able to
selectively apply the motor to one wormgear at a time until the roof
was straight and then installed the motor again. Much back-and-forth
needed to centre the gear but finally...success!

So the remaining sunroof problems are:
a) the wind deflector that pops up will not pop back down enough to
allow the roof to close. If I hold it down or poke it as the roof
shuts it's fine but I'm not sure how to adjust it. Will check the
book.
b) the labored motion of the roof belies a need for lubrication and
cleaning... I know I won't be taking the roof apart at all but I'm not
clear on the best way to lube it and what with...any thoughts?

And on we go!

Thanks for all your suggestions.
blurp

 

[James Sweet]

Of course, I took the motor out too so I could check the wires and
engage it without having the resistance of the sunroof. So when the
power started flowing and the motor started working I foolishly tried
to simply hold it in place to test it. This resulted in only one of
the wormgears engaging and twisting the sunroof with one corner up and
one corner down (ugh). With a fair bit of hit-and-miss I was able to
selectively apply the motor to one wormgear at a time until the roof
was straight and then installed the motor again. Much back-and-forth
needed to centre the gear but finally...success!

I usually use a screwdriver to move the cables if this happens, it's a pain
but not too bad.

So the remaining sunroof problems are:
a) the wind deflector that pops up will not pop back down enough to
allow the roof to close. If I hold it down or poke it as the roof
shuts it's fine but I'm not sure how to adjust it. Will check the
book.

Mine had this exact problem, I had to replace the two levers that the roof
pushes on as the pivots had rusted and one finally broke off. Warning
though, these are exorbitantly overpriced, I think it cost me $130(!) for
the pair of them at the dealer, don't think you can get them anywhere else.
Every one I saw in the junkyard was rusted. Removing them is not horribly
difficult but not trivial either. Perhaps you can modify the sliders that
push them down to give them a bit more thickness.

b) the labored motion of the roof belies a need for lubrication and
cleaning... I know I won't be taking the roof apart at all but I'm not
clear on the best way to lube it and what with...any thoughts?

Careful cleaning with a toothbrush and application of spray lubricant works
fairly well. You can slide the sunroof headliner back out of the way for
better access to the workings. It's much easier to do this after you've seen
it done, but essentially you open the roof just a crack, grab the front edge
of the sunroof liner and jerk it straight back, it then (hopefully) comes
unclipped at the front and slides back. Be careful not to slide it back so
far that you lose it up in the roof though.