850 timing belt...marks don't line up!Help!

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Ron /Champ 6

'94 850 no turbo, 68,000miles


I recently purchased the car, and am replacing the timing belt.
Presumably no one has ever done this on this car before, based on
milage.

I've got the crank timing mark lined up, correctly. I've triple
checked, had others look for that tiny little mark on the sprocket,
and we all agree, that 'valley' in the sprocket with the mark is lined
up with the raised pointer / rib on the block.

Both cams, however, have the tooth with the mark on them about one
tooth to the left of the V notch in the cover. Both Volvospeed.com's
instructions and the Haynes manual say these teeth should be lined up
with the V notch.I've turned the crank clockwise several revolutions,
just to double check, and each time I end up with the same thing.

Keep in mind, I've driven any other 850, so I don't know what the
performance is supposed to be, but I felt the car ran well, and
performed decently, so I am reluctant to put the marks in what the
manual shows as correct.

What should I do? Asseb]mble it the was it is now, or as the manual
says it should be?


Ron/Champ 6

1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6)
1962 Lark Daytona Convertible (Boomerang)
1992 VW Passat (Taxi)
1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk)
 
I personally would do it as the book says. As a check that you have the
crank in the right spot, look at the roll pin hole on the crank pulley; it
should be exactly at 12 o'clock position. If it isn't, set the crank pulley
to 12 o'clock, and recheck the marks on the cam pulleys; do they now line
up? If so, you are not setting the crank to the right spot.

Jeff
 
Ron /Champ 6 said:
'94 850 no turbo, 68,000miles


I recently purchased the car, and am replacing the timing belt.
Presumably no one has ever done this on this car before, based on
milage.

I've got the crank timing mark lined up, correctly. I've triple
checked, had others look for that tiny little mark on the sprocket,
and we all agree, that 'valley' in the sprocket with the mark is lined
up with the raised pointer / rib on the block.

Both cams, however, have the tooth with the mark on them about one
tooth to the left of the V notch in the cover. Both Volvospeed.com's
instructions and the Haynes manual say these teeth should be lined up
with the V notch.I've turned the crank clockwise several revolutions,
just to double check, and each time I end up with the same thing.
Click to expand...
I had this whan I replaced mine.
The problem is that the marks are supposed to line up when the
non-tensioner (front) half of the belt is at full tension. It's
impossible to pull the belt tight enough to do this. You end up
meshing the belt around the crankshaft with one tooth of slack in the
front side of the belt.

The solution was to rotate the crank about 1 tooth CCW (backward) and
mesh the belt there. After installing and releasing the tensioner,
the initial CW rotation fo the crank pulley took up the slack on the
front side of the belt and everything aligned perfectly.

To reply, please remove one letter from each side of "@"
Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all.
 
Thanks both Doug and Jeff.

The car sits in the garage awaiting the collective wisdom of this NG.

1) It probably has never had the belt off.
2) It ran fine, easy to start, ran smooth, decent power and milage.
3) It was one tooth off
4) Why was it one tooth off?

How much difference in drivability would there be if it truly were 1
tooth retarded on both intake and exhaust?




I had this whan I replaced mine.
The problem is that the marks are supposed to line up when the
non-tensioner (front) half of the belt is at full tension. It's
impossible to pull the belt tight enough to do this. You end up
meshing the belt around the crankshaft with one tooth of slack in the
front side of the belt.

The solution was to rotate the crank about 1 tooth CCW (backward) and
mesh the belt there. After installing and releasing the tensioner,
the initial CW rotation fo the crank pulley took up the slack on the
front side of the belt and everything aligned perfectly.

To reply, please remove one letter from each side of "@"
Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all.
Click to expand...

Ron/Champ 6

1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6)
1962 Lark Daytona Convertible (Boomerang)
1992 VW Passat (Taxi)
1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk)
 
Ron /Champ 6 said:
Thanks both Doug and Jeff.

The car sits in the garage awaiting the collective wisdom of this NG.

1) It probably has never had the belt off.
2) It ran fine, easy to start, ran smooth, decent power and milage.
3) It was one tooth off
4) Why was it one tooth off?

How much difference in drivability would there be if it truly were 1
tooth retarded on both intake and exhaust?
Click to expand...


I know that on a single cam 240 Turbo having the belt one tooth off made it
run like complete crap, I forget which way it was off, but the car had no
power until boost, pedal to the floor in 1st gear it would crawl along for 3
or 4 seconds then take off like a rocket.
 
James Sweet said:
I know that on a single cam 240 Turbo having the belt one tooth off made it
run like complete crap, I forget which way it was off, but the car had no
power until boost, pedal to the floor in 1st gear it would crawl along for 3
or 4 seconds then take off like a rocket.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, the carburetted version of that same engine ran OK with
the cam advanced or retarded one tooth. Advanced made about 30% worse
mileage and slightly better torque through the whole range. Retarded made
about 10% better mileage, but poor torque except between about 2500-4000rpm.
 
Thanks both Doug and Jeff.

The car sits in the garage awaiting the collective wisdom of this NG.

1) It probably has never had the belt off.
2) It ran fine, easy to start, ran smooth, decent power and milage.
3) It was one tooth off
4) Why was it one tooth off?

How much difference in drivability would there be if it truly were 1
tooth retarded on both intake and exhaust?
Click to expand...
When the motor is initially setup at the factory, there is a jig in place
across the rear of the cam shafts that holds them in position. After the
belt is installed a mark is scribed on the cam gears to align with the
notch in the cover. When doing a service replacement, the marks never
line up exactly with the V notch. My experience ia that the scribe marks
more closely align with the upper tip of the gaging cover section rather
than the V. As a precaution, I generally mark everything prior to
disassembly.

Bob
 
Thanks Bob,

Maybe somone was in this engine before, because the cams are
definitely 1 tooth retarded. I set it up per the manual tonight, and
though I haven't driven it yet, it starts, idles, and revs well. We
shall see tomorrow how it drives. The belt I took off has no markings
of any kind...would the original be marked in any way?




When the motor is initially setup at the factory, there is a jig in place
across the rear of the cam shafts that holds them in position. After the
belt is installed a mark is scribed on the cam gears to align with the
notch in the cover. When doing a service replacement, the marks never
line up exactly with the V notch. My experience ia that the scribe marks
more closely align with the upper tip of the gaging cover section rather
than the V. As a precaution, I generally mark everything prior to
disassembly.

Bob
Click to expand...

Ron/Champ 6

1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6)
1962 Lark Daytona Convertible (Boomerang)
1992 VW Passat (Taxi)
1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk)
 
Finished up all the repairs today, and took the car out for a spin. I
set the timing per the manual.

Even though the car ran well before, it does have far more power and
generally runs even better! The only mystery now is why both cams were
one tooth retarded, apparently since new!

Thanks for everyone's help



'94 850 no turbo, 68,000miles


I recently purchased the car, and am replacing the timing belt.
Presumably no one has ever done this on this car before, based on
milage.

I've got the crank timing mark lined up, correctly. I've triple
checked, had others look for that tiny little mark on the sprocket,
and we all agree, that 'valley' in the sprocket with the mark is lined
up with the raised pointer / rib on the block.

Both cams, however, have the tooth with the mark on them about one
tooth to the left of the V notch in the cover. Both Volvospeed.com's
instructions and the Haynes manual say these teeth should be lined up
with the V notch.I've turned the crank clockwise several revolutions,
just to double check, and each time I end up with the same thing.

Keep in mind, I've driven any other 850, so I don't know what the
performance is supposed to be, but I felt the car ran well, and
performed decently, so I am reluctant to put the marks in what the
manual shows as correct.

What should I do? Asseb]mble it the was it is now, or as the manual
says it should be?


Ron/Champ 6

1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6)
1962 Lark Daytona Convertible (Boomerang)
1992 VW Passat (Taxi)
1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk)
Click to expand...

Ron/Champ 6

1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6)
1962 Lark Daytona Convertible (Boomerang)
1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk)
1994 Volvo 850 (Tilley)
 
Ron /Champ 6 said:
Finished up all the repairs today, and took the car out for a spin. I
set the timing per the manual.

Even though the car ran well before, it does have far more power and
generally runs even better! The only mystery now is why both cams were
one tooth retarded, apparently since new!
Click to expand...

All that ends well ....

I wonder if the belt jumped one tooth in use. That can happen if the belt
stretches or the tensioner isn't working correctly.

John
 
The only correct way to correctly line up the camshafts is a special tool
from Volvo that locks the cams in the rear (only fits one way) the camshaft
gears have elongated holes in them if the camshafts were off by more then
one tooth you run in to a problem
 
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