89 740 GL starter just spins

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jimbo
  • Start date Start date
J

Jimbo

The other day I had problems starting it up, had to repeatedly crank many
times. a couple of time I heard the engine kind of "lock up" abnormally,
stalling the starter motor temporarily, then while still holding the starter
engaged, it pulled on through the locked/stalled condition and continued to
crank. After this happened a couple of times, then the starter would no
longer rotate the engine, you just hear it spinning, as if there is no load
on the starter at all. It sounds like the bendix/relay isn't pushing the
starter pinion out any more....or the pinion got stripped out. I tried
jumping the battery from another car in case it was low voltage causing the
problem, but it does the same thing. So I pulled the starter out, but the
pinion looks fine. I connected it to a jump-starter and checked it, it
operates fine...the pinion gear pushes out all the way, and it spins up
fine. I put a ratchet on the damper and manually rotated the engine and
flywheel all around, watching the flywheel teeth. They look fine. The engine
sure isn't seized up, although it sounded that way before the starter failed
entirely. It rotates easily with a ratchet, and the crankshaft is okay since
the flywheel is turning. So I don't see why the starter is not turning the
engine over....unless maybe under load the starter is slipping. Maybe the
pinion is loose and slips under load? Do automotive shops have some way to
dynamically check a starter? Ideas what's wrong?
 
Jimbo said:
The other day I had problems starting it up, had to repeatedly crank many
times. a couple of time I heard the engine kind of "lock up" abnormally,
stalling the starter motor temporarily, then while still holding the starter
engaged, it pulled on through the locked/stalled condition and continued to
crank. After this happened a couple of times, then the starter would no
longer rotate the engine, you just hear it spinning, as if there is no load
on the starter at all. It sounds like the bendix/relay isn't pushing the
starter pinion out any more....or the pinion got stripped out. I tried
jumping the battery from another car in case it was low voltage causing the
problem, but it does the same thing. So I pulled the starter out, but the
pinion looks fine. I connected it to a jump-starter and checked it, it
operates fine...the pinion gear pushes out all the way, and it spins up
fine. I put a ratchet on the damper and manually rotated the engine and
flywheel all around, watching the flywheel teeth. They look fine. The engine
sure isn't seized up, although it sounded that way before the starter failed
entirely. It rotates easily with a ratchet, and the crankshaft is okay since
the flywheel is turning. So I don't see why the starter is not turning the
engine over....unless maybe under load the starter is slipping. Maybe the
pinion is loose and slips under load? Do automotive shops have some way to
dynamically check a starter? Ideas what's wrong?
Click to expand...

The problem has got to be the starter if the flywheel teeth look fine. Get a
"new" one from a scrapyard and save yourself some trouble down the road.
Supposedly the older larger diameter starters used on '87(?) and earlier
cars are more robust.
 
Jimbo said:
The other day I had problems starting it up, had to repeatedly crank many
times. a couple of time I heard the engine kind of "lock up" abnormally,
stalling the starter motor temporarily, then while still holding the
starter engaged, it pulled on through the locked/stalled condition and
continued to crank. After this happened a couple of times, then the
starter would no longer rotate the engine, you just hear it spinning, as
if there is no load on the starter at all. It sounds like the bendix/relay
isn't pushing the starter pinion out any more....or the pinion got
stripped out. I tried jumping the battery from another car in case it was
low voltage causing the problem, but it does the same thing. So I pulled
the starter out, but the pinion looks fine. I connected it to a
jump-starter and checked it, it operates fine...the pinion gear pushes out
all the way, and it spins up fine. I put a ratchet on the damper and
manually rotated the engine and flywheel all around, watching the flywheel
teeth. They look fine. The engine sure isn't seized up, although it
sounded that way before the starter failed entirely. It rotates easily
with a ratchet, and the crankshaft is okay since the flywheel is turning.
So I don't see why the starter is not turning the engine over....unless
maybe under load the starter is slipping. Maybe the pinion is loose and
slips under load? Do automotive shops have some way to dynamically check a
starter? Ideas what's wrong?
Click to expand...
Failure to engage is usually loss of lubrication in the bendix. It sounds
like it is within your DIY range to disassemble the bendix and grease it up.
Another thing to check would be the engine ground and the battery cables.

Replacement of the starter is a problematic second way to go. I don't know
what the price of a genuine Volvo starter is, but aftermarket starters and
alternators have earned a bad reputation.

Mike
 
Failure to engage is usually loss of lubrication in the bendix. It sounds
like it is within your DIY range to disassemble the bendix and grease it up.
Another thing to check would be the engine ground and the battery cables.

Replacement of the starter is a problematic second way to go. I don't know
what the price of a genuine Volvo starter is, but aftermarket starters and
alternators have earned a bad reputation.
Click to expand...


Buying a new one is just plain silly, even online they're several hundred
dollars. I've rarely had trouble with $13 junkyard starters, though a word
of advice, it's quite a bit easier to remove one from a car with a manual
transmission.
 
James Sweet said:
Buying a new one is just plain silly, even online they're several hundred
dollars. I've rarely had trouble with $13 junkyard starters, though a word
of advice, it's quite a bit easier to remove one from a car with a manual
transmission.
Click to expand...
Good idea, James. The conventional wisdom for operating parts is to favor
pulling them from a car that has fatal body damage, since you can be sure it
worked before the car was smooshed!

Mike
 
Most Volvo starters are solenoid operated. which means that the fork end of
the lever which pushes the pinion into engagement has broken and does not
push the pinion into engagement although it operates the contacts for heavy
current to spin the motor.

Exchange starters are not that expensive and come with a guarantee. In UK
they are less than £100 if you go to an electrical specialist like Lucas-CAV
or Bosch.

Cheers, Peter.
 
Jimbo said:
The other day I had problems starting it up, had to repeatedly crank many
times. a couple of time I heard the engine kind of "lock up" abnormally,
stalling the starter motor temporarily, then while still holding the starter
engaged, it pulled on through the locked/stalled condition and continued to
crank. After this happened a couple of times, then the starter would no
longer rotate the engine, you just hear it spinning, as if there is no load
on the starter at all. It sounds like the bendix/relay isn't pushing the
starter pinion out any more....or the pinion got stripped out. I tried
jumping the battery from another car in case it was low voltage causing the
problem, but it does the same thing. So I pulled the starter out, but the
pinion looks fine. I connected it to a jump-starter and checked it, it
operates fine...the pinion gear pushes out all the way, and it spins up
fine. I put a ratchet on the damper and manually rotated the engine and
flywheel all around, watching the flywheel teeth. They look fine. The engine
sure isn't seized up, although it sounded that way before the starter failed
entirely. It rotates easily with a ratchet, and the crankshaft is okay since
the flywheel is turning. So I don't see why the starter is not turning the
engine over....unless maybe under load the starter is slipping. Maybe the
pinion is loose and slips under load? Do automotive shops have some way to
dynamically check a starter? Ideas what's wrong?
Click to expand...
You state that you are able to turn the engine with a ratchet but did
you remove the oil filler cap & see if the camshaft is also turning ?
what is the mileage on the car ?
It is possible that the timing belt teeth have worn off
these are all things to also check before removing the starter & replacing
Glenn
Volvo Technician
ASE Certified

--
"*-344-*Never Forgotten"
Is for the New York City Firemen who lost their lives on September 11,2001.
The official count is 343, but there was also a volunteer who lost his life
aiding in the initial rescue efforts. And I will never forget them as
long as I live,
nor should any American.
"Mow Green"
 
Glenn Klein said:
You state that you are able to turn the engine with a ratchet but did
you remove the oil filler cap & see if the camshaft is also turning ?
what is the mileage on the car ?
It is possible that the timing belt teeth have worn off
these are all things to also check before removing the starter & replacing
Glenn
Volvo Technician
ASE Certified
Click to expand...

None of those problems will prevent the engine from turning over, which he
stated it does not do.
 
Exactly right....I have to replace that starter, even though there is
nothing obviously wrong, because although the pinion was going all the way
forward when I tested it out of the car, for some reason it would not
engage and turn the flywheel, even though the engine can be rotated by hand
easily. This engine has about 220 K miles on it and the starter looks OEM. I
was doing good to get that much life out of it, I suppose. I had just
degreased the engine because there is an oil leak somewhere (probably the
valve cover) on the engine. Rinsing it off got the ignition (distributor
probably) too wet, and so I had to crank, crank, crank... and spray
everything with LPS-1 trying to get it to start. Guess that is what
FU-bar'ed the starter.
 
Jimbo said:
Exactly right....I have to replace that starter, even though there is
nothing obviously wrong, because although the pinion was going all the way
forward when I tested it out of the car, for some reason it would not
engage and turn the flywheel, even though the engine can be rotated by hand
easily. This engine has about 220 K miles on it and the starter looks OEM. I
was doing good to get that much life out of it, I suppose. I had just
degreased the engine because there is an oil leak somewhere (probably the
valve cover) on the engine. Rinsing it off got the ignition (distributor
probably) too wet, and so I had to crank, crank, crank... and spray
everything with LPS-1 trying to get it to start. Guess that is what
Click to expand...


Oil leaks are often the valve cover or the camshaft seal, but check the
flame trap first, it becomming plugged is the leading cause of oil leaks in
the first place, it can blow a seal out and cause a REAL bad leak.
 
and the camshaft does exactly what? A toothless or broken cam belt makes
the starter seem as if it's not turning the motor. Do any of the pullies
on the front of the motor turn?

Bob
 
Robert Dietz ioip.com> said:
and the camshaft does exactly what? A toothless or broken cam belt makes
the starter seem as if it's not turning the motor. Do any of the pullies
on the front of the motor turn?
Click to expand...


How's that? It's pretty obvious looking under the hood if the motor is
turning or not, I'm quite sure he's verified that to be the case. I've
cranked a motor with no compression before and while it spins much faster,
it sounds very different than a starter not engaging.
 
Robert Dietz ioip.com> said:
and the camshaft does exactly what? A toothless or broken cam belt makes
the starter seem as if it's not turning the motor. Do any of the pullies
on the front of the motor turn?
Click to expand...


How's that? It's pretty obvious looking under the hood if the motor is
turning or not, I'm quite sure he's verified that to be the case. I've
cranked a motor with no compression before and while it spins much faster,
it sounds very different than a starter not engaging.
 
Did the pinion spin with the motor or did it just push into engagement
without rotating? The pinion has to be keyed to the shaft for it to rotate
with the shaft. The solenoid fork engages in a slot in the pinion body so
that the pinion can rotate while the solenoid fork stays still.

Best way is to exchange at a shop who specialise in auto electrical parts or
take pot luck with one from a scrapper.

Cheers, Peter.
 
Failure to engage is usually loss of lubrication in the bendix. It sounds
like it is within your DIY range to disassemble the bendix and grease it up.
Click to expand...

I doubt any cars had a bendix gear by '89. All 740s have pre-engage
starters.
--

Stewart Hargrave


For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name
 
Stewart Hargrave said:
up.

I doubt any cars had a bendix gear by '89. All 740s have pre-engage
starters.
Click to expand...

The starters back at least as far as '79 240 are identical and
interchangeable with those in 700 and 900 series cars, I don't think Volvo
ever used a started with a Bendix, and certainly not in the OHV redblocks.
 
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