90's Volvo Wagon Power

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blurp

Hi all,

Recent changes at home are precipitating a change in our vehicles: we
need to go to a wagon.

Now I have a 1983 240 Turbo that I thought was pretty peppy. Then we
added a 760 GLE and I find it to be CONSIDERABLY more peppy. In
searching for used wagons I'm moslty finding 240/740/940 models in my
price range (some with Turbo) and am wondering if these 4-cylinder
models (with the added weight of being a wagon) are going to be
sluggish or wimpy. The 760 has a surprising amount of power (it's the
first V6 I've ever owned) and I am reluctant to give up that power.

In addition to this it is significantly more fuel-efficient than my
240, which came as quite a surprise. I always expected a 6-cylinder to
be much worse that a 4 for gas consumption but this hasn't proven to
be the case.

So am I going to be dissatisfied with these 4-cylinder wagons or do
they hold their own well? 850 wagons are just on the periphery of my
price range and I know they go well but they've got 5 cans and even
that might make a significant difference over a 4.

On Sunday I had the 760 up to 175km/hr before I ran out of road, can I
expect that from a 740?

Thanks for you opinions.
blurp

ps. Anyone in southern ontario want to buy a 240T and a 760GLE cheap?
(or trade both for one good wagon?)
 
Only you can answer these questions. Sure, there are more powerful
cars, but the 240s have a reputation that is second to none. Sure, my
960 is WAY more powerful than my 240GL, but the 240 can climb our hill
at 60 (it's a stick). But just like your questions, how steep of a
hill? And sure, it takes longer to get there, but it just got 26mpg
(100+ temps and 70+mph with the air on), which ain't bad (the 960 got
24 on the same drive, more or less). I would say for a 4 it is quite
nice with a good amount of bottom end torque, but it does take a
little longer to get there when matching speeds.

One way to answer the question- go drive one! If nothing else, the
lower amount of power will teach you humility and patience. ;-)




blurp said:
Hi all,

Recent changes at home are precipitating a change in our vehicles: we
need to go to a wagon.

Now I have a 1983 240 Turbo that I thought was pretty peppy. Then we
added a 760 GLE and I find it to be CONSIDERABLY more peppy. In
searching for used wagons I'm moslty finding 240/740/940 models in my
price range (some with Turbo) and am wondering if these 4-cylinder
models (with the added weight of being a wagon) are going to be
sluggish or wimpy. The 760 has a surprising amount of power (it's the
first V6 I've ever owned) and I am reluctant to give up that power.

In addition to this it is significantly more fuel-efficient than my
240, which came as quite a surprise. I always expected a 6-cylinder to
be much worse that a 4 for gas consumption but this hasn't proven to
be the case.

So am I going to be dissatisfied with these 4-cylinder wagons or do
they hold their own well? 850 wagons are just on the periphery of my
price range and I know they go well but they've got 5 cans and even
that might make a significant difference over a 4.

On Sunday I had the 760 up to 175km/hr before I ran out of road, can I
expect that from a 740?

Thanks for you opinions.
blurp

ps. Anyone in southern ontario want to buy a 240T and a 760GLE cheap?
(or trade both for one good wagon?)
Click to expand...

__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 240 Estate - '93 960 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
 
blurp said:
Hi all,

Recent changes at home are precipitating a change in our vehicles: we
need to go to a wagon.

Now I have a 1983 240 Turbo that I thought was pretty peppy. Then we
added a 760 GLE and I find it to be CONSIDERABLY more peppy. In
searching for used wagons I'm moslty finding 240/740/940 models in my
price range (some with Turbo) and am wondering if these 4-cylinder
models (with the added weight of being a wagon) are going to be
sluggish or wimpy. The 760 has a surprising amount of power (it's the
first V6 I've ever owned) and I am reluctant to give up that power.

In addition to this it is significantly more fuel-efficient than my
240, which came as quite a surprise. I always expected a 6-cylinder to
be much worse that a 4 for gas consumption but this hasn't proven to
be the case.

So am I going to be dissatisfied with these 4-cylinder wagons or do
they hold their own well? 850 wagons are just on the periphery of my
price range and I know they go well but they've got 5 cans and even
that might make a significant difference over a 4.

On Sunday I had the 760 up to 175km/hr before I ran out of road, can I
expect that from a 740?
Click to expand...


Is your 240 Turbo intercooled? The intercooled turbo engines (which the 700
series all are) are considerably more powerful than the V6, and there's far
more potential for increased power. Add to that improved fuel economy, much
easier to find parts and a more robust engine overall and it's the way to
go. Most people avoid the V6 like the plague, a few have had good luck with
it but many more have had nightmares.
 
There is nothing wrong with the B280 version of the V6 engine. There were
inadequate oilways on the B28 and B27 versions which caused camshaft bearing
problems if the oil changes were too infrequent.

All the best, Peter.

700/900/90 Register Keeper,
Volvo Owners Club (UK).
 
Peter K L Milnes said:
There is nothing wrong with the B280 version of the V6 engine. There were
inadequate oilways on the B28 and B27 versions which caused camshaft bearing
problems if the oil changes were too infrequent.

All the best, Peter.
Click to expand...


I would agree that it was much improved, though the problem remains that
it's a very rare motor and finding parts and someone who knows how to work
on it can be difficult. It still has less power and worse fuel economy than
the 4 cyl turbo so it's still one to be avoided generally.
 
It is the same engine as fitted to the large Renaults and Peugeots (they had
turbo versions) and the DeLorean.

All the best, Peter.
 
Peter K L Milnes said:
It is the same engine as fitted to the large Renaults and Peugeots (they had
turbo versions) and the DeLorean.

All the best, Peter.
Click to expand...

Which are all extremely rare on this side of the pond... DeLorean only made
a few thousand cars for a few years, and I don't think Renault or Peugeot
have sold anything over here in close to 20 years.
 
It is the same engine as fitted to the large Renaults and Peugeots (they had
turbo versions) and the DeLorean.
Click to expand...

Not quite. It's similar, but from the heads up, it's a different enough
beast to cause trouble. The DeLorean motor is a B28F, not a B280F. The
Eagle Primer / Dodge Monaco used a 3.0L version of the V6. I believe it
was based on the even-fire (think B280F here) version.

Parts are still quite expensive compared to the parts for the four banger.

....

The USA was Peugeot's biggest market for their version of the V6. Volvo,
OTOH, did not sell any V6 wagons in the US.
 
I would agree that it was much improved, though the problem remains that
it's a very rare motor and finding parts and someone who knows how to
work on it can be difficult. It still has less power and worse fuel
economy than the 4 cyl turbo so it's still one to be avoided generally.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting that the original poster is getting better mileage from
his V6 than from his turbo four. Neither motor is known for being
terribly light on fuel. If the V6 fuel consumption is acceptable, I'd say
it's not an issue for a future purchase.
 
You're forgetting that the original poster is getting better mileage from
his V6 than from his turbo four. Neither motor is known for being
terribly light on fuel. If the V6 fuel consumption is acceptable, I'd say
it's not an issue for a future purchase.
Click to expand...

Well first of all I thank you all for your advice, it's taken very
seriously.

Our experience with the 760GLE has been nothing but easy good times.
Since buying it in November '04 (as a winter car with the intent to
only drive it a few months before scrapping) we have put 16K km on it
with only a couple of wear-and-tear repairs done at the shop (tranny
seal and sticky caliper sliders). All other work done on the car has
been straight forward enough for me to do it myself (with lots of
advice and instructions from all of you). It seems to be rock solid
and reliable every time plus lots of pep: it has 336K on it and I had
it up to 170km/h two weeks ago before I ran out of road. In addition
to this, with the exception of AC, all of the electrical junk was easy
to fix and is now working well. It is for all these reasons that I was
hoping to get another similar model in a wagon format. If I didn't
need a wagon I would be looking at all.

Now I may just have been lucky but all of the previously mentioned
reasons (ease of repair, access to adequate parts, real relative fuel
economy, comparable 'pep') are reasons enough for me to look for other
models. Not to mention that previous threads on this group have
more-or-less established the 940 as the best of the used models and
that availability of *40 models outnumber *60 models about 10 to 1.

As for the 240T, it is lots of fun to drive but when I first got it it
needed a new turbo and 6 months later needed another one (installer
error, my cost) so I'm a bit gunshy where turbos are concerned. It
isn't intercooled (or water-cooled) so it really was an added concern
at all times while driving. I am, however, suspicious of turbo owners'
motive for selling, even though the turbo in the one I'm selling is
fine. If the newer intercooled models are less delicate then I'll
definitely consider them in my search.

Again, thanks for your advice. As this is the only Volvo community
available to me I appreciate the views of those who know.

Cheers,
blurp
 
I've had a '91 940 Turbo Wagon now for 8 years. The thing is as fast
as I need (faster than anyone expects especially when I want to merge
or get in front off a light) and have had only minor issues with the
electro/mechanical parts like some relays and switches.

Has been the best performing and least expensive car I've ever owned.

Mind you I seldom see more than 22mpg...and no it doesn't matter if you
are on the gas or just putt putting and coasting around, it gets
basically the same mpg.

Hope that helps!
 
That helps plenty. I know Rob Guenther is also always raving about his
940 so more testimonials really seem to be pushing me toward the 940
wagon.

SO... wanna sell yours? LOL

Thanks for your input!
b

n 2 Aug 2005 10:56:54 -0700, the illustrious "rndthought"
 
I thought Rob was driving a 960?

I have put about 500 miles on my new (to me) 240, 5 speed stick. It's
no race car, but happily cruises along at 70+ with ease. With mostly
highway miles, at 100+ temperatures, at 70+ most of the time, air on,
and about 20-30 city miles, I got 26.4mpg on the last tank. That's not
spectacular in these days, but my '74 Ford 4wd F100 gets 9mpg!





blurp said:
That helps plenty. I know Rob Guenther is also always raving about his
940 so more testimonials really seem to be pushing me toward the 940
wagon.

SO... wanna sell yours? LOL

Thanks for your input!
b

n 2 Aug 2005 10:56:54 -0700, the illustrious "rndthought"
Click to expand...

__ __
Randy & \ \/ /alerie's
\__/olvos
'90 240 Estate - '93 960 Estate
"Shelby" & "Kate"
 
As for the 240T, it is lots of fun to drive but when I first got it it
needed a new turbo and 6 months later needed another one (installer
error, my cost) so I'm a bit gunshy where turbos are concerned. It
isn't intercooled (or water-cooled) so it really was an added concern
at all times while driving. I am, however, suspicious of turbo owners'
motive for selling, even though the turbo in the one I'm selling is
fine. If the newer intercooled models are less delicate then I'll
definitely consider them in my search.

Again, thanks for your advice. As this is the only Volvo community
available to me I appreciate the views of those who know.
Click to expand...


Intercooling doesn't affect turbo life, water cooling most certainly does.
Either is easily retrofitted to a car that came without, though the water
cooling requires a different turbo but when changing the turbo there's no
reason not to spend the extra 100 bucks to get a water cooled unit and the
additional plumbing kit.
 
rndthought said:
I've had a '91 940 Turbo Wagon now for 8 years. The thing is as fast
as I need (faster than anyone expects especially when I want to merge
or get in front off a light) and have had only minor issues with the
electro/mechanical parts like some relays and switches.

Has been the best performing and least expensive car I've ever owned.

Mind you I seldom see more than 22mpg...and no it doesn't matter if you
are on the gas or just putt putting and coasting around, it gets
basically the same mpg.

Hope that helps!
Click to expand...

Sure has mattered for me, I've gotten as low as 14 mpg driving hard and as
high as 27 mpg with a light foot on the freeway.
 
blurp said:
That helps plenty. I know Rob Guenther is also always raving about his
940 so more testimonials really seem to be pushing me toward the 940
wagon.
Click to expand...

His is a 960, quite a different beast with the inline 6, nice cars though.
 
Oh my lord! 27mpg!?!? I'd go to church!
Only times I see much difference is when taking long highway trips.
Maybe I've go my foot on the gas more than I think... ;) Always
thought it was due to the fact that when I was off the turbo, the
compression was lower than a 4 banger that was normally aspirated, so
mileage would suffer...then when on the gas and the turbo was spinning
and well, that isn't exactly a "fuel saving" mode either.
 
Especially if it has the twin turbo T6 engine as in the top XC90 (possibly
UK only).

All the best, Peter.

700/900/90 Register Keeper,
Volvo Owners Club (UK).
 
rndthought said:
Oh my lord! 27mpg!?!? I'd go to church!
Only times I see much difference is when taking long highway trips.
Maybe I've go my foot on the gas more than I think... ;) Always
thought it was due to the fact that when I was off the turbo, the
compression was lower than a 4 banger that was normally aspirated, so
mileage would suffer...then when on the gas and the turbo was spinning
and well, that isn't exactly a "fuel saving" mode either.
Click to expand...

That was in the summer, entirely on the highway in a rather flat area, tires
at 37 psi and it's a manual gearbox with synthetic engine and gearbox oil.
Typical fuel economy is closer to 25 mpg.
 
Peter K L Milnes said:
Especially if it has the twin turbo T6 engine as in the top XC90 (possibly
UK only).
Click to expand...


That'd be a fantastic car but alas we never got a turbocharged 960 here.
 
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