On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:14:48 -0700, James Sweet
<
[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> 1993 was the last year for r12 w/ a few temporary exceptions for
>>> existing equipment. the standard recharge involves swapping out the
>>> nipples and using r134a, w/ a consequent loss of cooling. everybody
>>> does it & i mean everybody. your local supermarket, the children's
>>> hospital so long as they can pay their electric bills. it's cheaper
>>> than throwing $100,000s of HVAC equipment. even in the best repair
>>> the old compressors just aren't as high pressure as the modern
>>> standard -- so the r134a doesn't expand enough to provide adequate
>>> cooling. if you continue to get "tepid" air you probably don't have a
>>> leak. it's just the combination of the r134a & worn internal seals in
>>> the compressor. put a meter on the system (low pressure side) to know
>>> for sure!- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>
>Residential and commercial A/C systems never used R134. Very early
>systems were R12, but the standard has been R22 for decades. More
>recently R22 is being phased out because it is a HCFC. Not nearly as
>ozone damaging as the CFC R12 (about 5%) but that is still the rational
>for replacing it. The new refrigerant for those applications is R410,
>I'm not fond of it myself, the pressures it operates at are around
>double that of R22 and both the equipment and the refrigerant are more
>expensive but that's beyond my control. Propane is actually a very close
>substitute for R22 but due to the flammability it's not legal to charge
>an AC system with it in case there's ever a leak.
>
>
>
>> Here's an update: I took the car to a different mechanic -- my
>> regular garage, in fact -- and had to face the humiliation of
>> discovering that the people I'd just paid $200 actually did NOTHING to
>> my car, not even the oil change or tire rotation. The AC was not only
>> not fixed, but the condenser fan is missing and the condenser badly
>> damaged, so they could've pumped freon all day long and it wouldn't
>> have mattered. I've filed a dispute with my credit card company, and
>> my regular garage was happy to write a supporting letter for the
>> disupte stating that none of the work I was charged for had actually
>> been done. Hopefully it will be decided in my favor. Stupidly, I
>> only checked the first garage's online user ratings AFTER I got
>> screwed. Turns out their primary business isn't actually auto repair,
>> but screwing over folks with autos that need repair. Wow. Lesson
>> learned.
>
>
>The fan was *missing*? What happened to it? That's not the sort of thing
>that tends to just fall off! A missing condenser fan will definitely
>impact the operation of the AC even if the condenser is fine. A system
>that has been converted to R134 does not provide quite the cooling
>capacity as R12, but I converted my 740 years ago and have found it to
>be perfectly adequate for the climate here in the Northwest. It takes a
>bit longer to really get going, but once it does, it blows cold even
>when it's in the 90s outside.
wow allot of issues have been raised...
it seems some people know refrigeration. i was limiting the discussion
to mobile refrigeration but even brick & mortar users were switching
to r134a for a while to meet the Montreal protocol. puron (r410a) just
isn't a seamless replacement for older systems. we have also learned
that it has a significant carbon foot print. the new fair haired child
is HFO-1234yf. no kidding. use all the letters & numbers you want
we'll make more. it's beginning to look like time we considered
propane again. a great refrigerant, so what if it blows up.
i'm glad you have placed a stop payment. it seems like these
@*&)%$%#^*)) are also due for criminal charges.
what happened to the fan does seem like a good question. the local
laws governing a/c differ so much, that there is never a standard
factory design for the system. some of the installations are so
awkward that i wouldn't be @ all surprised if a technician just ripped
parts off. (did anyone else's mom or dad explain to them that when you
put something back together you are always supposed to have extra
parts?)
finally, even if you just got a simple (i think you know by now that
is an oxymoron) a/c recharge, a system integrity test should be done.
in North America & Europe*, there are agencies of the central
government which will respond.
*ok Brazil, Ecuador, Argentina, Peru, Australia, Israel, New Zealand,
South Africa & Japan & Korea & i'll give up now. i'm sure i've missed
somebody.
