help ! I think I broke my turbo on my turbo !

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circuit slave

I have a 740 Wagon Turbo and I'm not sure if it's electrical that I
bumped or my own fault for running the car with low oil. I replaced
the 3/8 size type hose that comes up by the Transmission Fluid dip
stick yesterday. It's that hose that has the inline vacuum check valve
and into the top intake. Well, I was on the freeway today and the car
had no turbo power. I was going about 70. When I came to a light the
car was chugging along, shimming like it was cold or something. I
thought it might have been the lack of oil.

I also had low oil because of an oil leak and think I might have broken
the turbo; however, the car runs fine but with no power now. It
accelerates and runs without black smoke or anything.

One thing I noticed is when I come to a stop while in drive, the needle
on the turbo is at "10 o'clock. When I accelerate the shaking stops.

And when the care is turned off , the needle goes straight to 12
o'clock? That's not correct, right? If I recall, it's supposed to go
down like the fuel guage and temp guage.

FWIW, the check oil light never came on, and it has run on low oil
before, not that it's good to do, but I'm hoping it's not serious. I
know I'm an idiot for not checking the oil, but I was only on the
freeway for about 15 minutes.

Do you think I may have ruined the turbo or even worse? How can I
check? Any diagnosis would be greatly appreciated.

Just a day ago I was zipping along and the turbo was fine. I hope it's
something I can fix.
 
I can only compare it to my 244 Turbo, but the hose you are describing
(on mine) provides a source of vacuum for the vacuum operated
heat/defrost system.

It could be you have a vacuum leak: check all the hoses.

To check the turbo, pull off the front air intake hose, and try to spin
the turbine vanes by hand; if they spin freely, and if there is little
or no play in the turbine shaft, then the turbo is probably OK.

Is the catalytic converter OK?
 
I'll check the turbo tomorrow. If you can forgive me, where are the
turbine vanes?


I think the catalytic converter is okay, I mean on Sunday I changed
that hose and also the wiring harness is brittle and broken in places.
Saturday it had zip and zoom! I pulled the throttle body and cleaned
it well, it was sluggish and after cleaning it and setting the TPS,
it's been good! It was never set and was sucking gas with poor mileage.

And so on Sunday I pulled the hose because it had never been changed
and broke and I replaced it. Only after this I noticed I had loss
power and no turbo and the car shakes at the stop sign/stop light.
 
circuit said:
I have a 740 Wagon Turbo and I'm not sure if it's electrical that I
bumped or my own fault for running the car with low oil. I replaced
the 3/8 size type hose that comes up by the Transmission Fluid dip
stick yesterday. It's that hose that has the inline vacuum check valve
and into the top intake. Well, I was on the freeway today and the car
had no turbo power. I was going about 70. When I came to a light the
car was chugging along, shimming like it was cold or something. I
thought it might have been the lack of oil.

I also had low oil because of an oil leak and think I might have broken
the turbo; however, the car runs fine but with no power now. It
accelerates and runs without black smoke or anything.

One thing I noticed is when I come to a stop while in drive, the needle
on the turbo is at "10 o'clock. When I accelerate the shaking stops.

And when the care is turned off , the needle goes straight to 12
o'clock? That's not correct, right? If I recall, it's supposed to go
down like the fuel guage and temp guage.

FWIW, the check oil light never came on, and it has run on low oil
before, not that it's good to do, but I'm hoping it's not serious. I
know I'm an idiot for not checking the oil, but I was only on the
freeway for about 15 minutes.

Do you think I may have ruined the turbo or even worse? How can I
check? Any diagnosis would be greatly appreciated.

Just a day ago I was zipping along and the turbo was fine. I hope it's
something I can fix.
Click to expand...


The turbo guage should sit right between the black and yellow sections
when off, at 0 psi so it sounds like that's working ok.

Pull the intake hose off the turbo and see if you can spin the turbine
by hand. Lack of oil pressure certainly can cause the turbo bearings to
seize though.
 
circuit said:
I'll check the turbo tomorrow. If you can forgive me, where are the
turbine vanes?
Click to expand...

Follow the big thick hose from the airbox to the front of the
turbocharger, disconnect it there and stick your finger in, you should
feel a shaft in the middle with a nut on it, that shaft is what you want
to spin.
 
circuit slave said:
I have a 740 Wagon Turbo and I'm not sure if it's electrical that I
bumped or my own fault for running the car with low oil. I replaced
the 3/8 size type hose that comes up by the Transmission Fluid dip
stick yesterday. It's that hose that has the inline vacuum check valve
and into the top intake.
Click to expand...

Did you put the check valve back in the right direction? :-)
 
James said:
Follow the big thick hose from the airbox to the front of the
turbocharger, disconnect it there and stick your finger in, you should
feel a shaft in the middle with a nut on it, that shaft is what you want
to spin.
Click to expand...



Okay, I'll do that today, thanks. One thing I did notice is when I
accelerate and go into turbo (yellow) I hear a whisper, raspy flutter
sound from the back of the car. Not outside, but I mean you can hear
it. Not a sputter, but a flutter.

Unless the cat is bad or clogged, but it didn't do it two days ago.
 
That's what my immediate thought was, and yes, it's on correctly.
Unless it is faulty? but I blew into it and it works, and confirmed it
is one-way valve.
 
circuit said:
Okay, I'll do that today, thanks. One thing I did notice is when I
accelerate and go into turbo (yellow) I hear a whisper, raspy flutter
sound from the back of the car. Not outside, but I mean you can hear
it. Not a sputter, but a flutter.

Unless the cat is bad or clogged, but it didn't do it two days ago.
Click to expand...


If the guage goes into the yellow, then the turbo itself is working.
 
Really, James ? I mean it does goes into the yellow but that' s just
the guage on the dashboard, I mean I hear what I think sounds like the
turbo spinning, that kind of "breath" sound. Isn't that the turbo, you
know when you accelerate and go into turbo then left off the gas, you
hear that breath sound. "aahhh" sound. If that makes sense.

I didn't get a chance to pull the hose and check the turbine if it
spins, but I did spray WD-40 on the injectors and on the hoses and no
change.

Maybe the fuel pressure regulator? I pulled off the front hose and
didn't really smell gas. I could feel it sucking air in. I didn't get a
chance to pull the back hose off to check for gas.

I just hope that the turbo isn't gone or anything worse like bent
engine parts.
 
circuit said:
Really, James ? I mean it does goes into the yellow but that' s just
the guage on the dashboard, I mean I hear what I think sounds like the
turbo spinning, that kind of "breath" sound. Isn't that the turbo, you
know when you accelerate and go into turbo then left off the gas, you
hear that breath sound. "aahhh" sound. If that makes sense.
Click to expand...


The guage on the dash is a mechanical pressure/vacuum guage connected to
the intake manifold. The black area is vacuum and the yellow area is
pressure. Where these meet is normal atmospheric pressure. If the turbo
seizes then the guage will behave as a normal vacuum guage and move
around in the black area reacting to engine load, however for it to go
into the yellow there has to be positive pressure in the intake manifold
and the only way that's happening is if the turbocharger is working and
producing boost.


Sounds to me like you've got a rip in one of the rubber air hoses
between the turbo and the intake manifold. Remove them and inspect
carefully as often times you'll get a flap which closes up and becomes
invisible until boost is produced.
 
That's what my immediate thought was, and yes, it's on correctly.
Unless it is faulty? but I blew into it and it works, and confirmed it
is one-way valve.
Click to expand...
Is there any chance that you may have done something to throw the
timing off? My 83 240 Turbo was totally gutless after a timing belt
replacement and it was found to be the result of improperly adjusted
timing. The turbo still spooled up but the power wasn't there. That
also goes with the "fluttering" sound you're hearing... I think that's
detonation.

Just a thought.

Blurp
 
I'll check the hoses again, but I replaced it.

See what happened was this:

I was replacing spark plugs and wanted to clean the area around the oil
trap because I don't know when/if it has ever been replaced. I cleaned
the throttle body last week and set the TPS.

Well, when I pulled the fat hose (3/8 about) that goes on the top
intake manifold and down to the one-way black/white disc vacuum valve
into the plastic "T" which one hose goes somewhere up front by the
radiator intercooler (I don't know where the other end goes to? I mean
it's connected somewhere). Anyway, that top fat hose broke ! It was
original and so I bought 3 feet of new hose and replaced it.

Then I'm on the freeway next day and the car was real hot, I mean like
I said oil was low.

But the temp was in the middle--there was no smoking or overheating,
but it was hot !

So I put in oil and thought I might have ruined the engine! But it
runs fine for the most part. No excessive gas smell, usage or anything.
It accelerates eventually to 70mph but has no power.

Maybe the "wastegate" ? (in quotes because I don't know really what
it is orhow it supposed to work if it's not working.

As far as the timing belt, blurp, It was changed a while back, I don't
think it would be that.
 
P.S.

I did rewire a spade connector near that area which had baked crubling
wire and restripped it and put the connection back. There isn't
anything electrical on the turbo, right?

Also the car does shake still a little at the stop light but not much,
but enough you could tell.
 
Is there any chance that you may have done something to throw the
timing off? My 83 240 Turbo was totally gutless after a timing belt
replacement and it was found to be the result of improperly adjusted
timing. The turbo still spooled up but the power wasn't there. That
also goes with the "fluttering" sound you're hearing... I think that's
detonation.
Click to expand...


I experienced that once too, belt was off by *one* tooth and the car
would barely go 5mph in 1st with the pedal to the floor. Once the boost
did build up after around 10 seconds it would smoke the tires though.
 
Most likely hose\s perished .Mine did so after replacement I put that slit
tubing over it to protect it from heat when the motor is turned off .Its
called heat soak and does much damage so idling down helps to prevent heat
soak after a long run and the Turbo will last longer too .I lift my hood \
bonnet and let the heat out after a long run and idle down .
 
well, the car was just smogged so , they did say the timing was off,
and that was corrected. I'll check.
 
I think I fixed it ! It has boost, but there's a problem : (

The obvious was ---or maybe I didn't fix it, but it feels like it? --
is the aluminium according type stretchable hose that goes from the
airbox at the bottom near the exhaust I think was old and had holes,
and so I cut the end and stretched it to fit, and now it has some
boost!

But there's a problem with the turbo that I will start in another
thread. Follow me :D
 
circuit said:
I think I fixed it ! It has boost, but there's a problem : (

The obvious was ---or maybe I didn't fix it, but it feels like it? --
is the aluminium according type stretchable hose that goes from the
airbox at the bottom near the exhaust I think was old and had holes,
and so I cut the end and stretched it to fit, and now it has some
boost!

But there's a problem with the turbo that I will start in another
thread. Follow me :D
Click to expand...


That metal hose isn't needed, in fact it's completely useless on the
turbo cars since it preheats the intake air when the engine is cold, but
then the intercooler cools it right back down. The airbox thermostat can
fail and kill the expensive air mass meter so I just yank that metal
hose and throw it away on my cars, it might have some value in a very
cold climate but it's not needed here and has no effect on the way the
car runs.
 

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