Left my brakes in a snowbank?

We recently got a huge dump of snow and, since I don't have a
driveway, I had to throw my '83 240 into a snow drift to park it.
After digging out a couple of days later my brakes are not functioning
correctly: The car stops (and I can even lock up the brakes) but the
braking action doesn't start until I've pushed the pedal twice as far
and the "Brake Failure" light is lit on the dash. I've had master
cylinder failures before (replaced about 18 months ago) but those
symptoms were different (soft brakes and the pedal keeps traveling
after you've stopped). The fluid in the reservoir is well above the
minimum line.

My brother-in-law suggested that snow damage to the parking brake
lines in a 4-wheel disk system could effect brake pedal travel. Anyone
have any insight on this?

Am I likely fooling myself trying to drive 'till payday?

Thanks for any suggestions,
blurp

 

I would suspect that you have lost one of your brake lines. Is the fluid
level low? Volvo did an amazing job making sure the brakes work pretty
well even if half of the circuit is not working but I would be nervous
about other damage to the other circuit and loosing everything. Is there
any parking garages you can sneak into and jack it up out of the snow and
look at the lines?
Chris V

 

Mike, I think you've hit on it. One of the chambers in the brake fluid
reservoir is empty! So this would indicate that a brake line is
damaged and I'm assuming the only remedy is replacement.

Would this indicate that I'm only braking with 2 wheels? If so they're
doing great: just this evening they helped me avoid a pile-up with a
careless Civic, a Kompressor, and an ambulance!

No point in topping up the empty reservoir?

Thanks to all for your great suggestions.

blurp

 

The fact that the brake failure light comes on indicates that there's no
pressure in one hydraulic circuit. Either the master cylinder is bad,
or there's a leak in one line or caliper somewhere. (Or there's air in
one line, not likely if no work has been done.) If both chambers in the
reservoir are full, then it's air or the master cylinder. If one is
empty, look for a leak.

--
Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

NOTE: new address!!
Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)

 

My guess is that there were impurities in the brake lines due
to age and sitting in the cold, pressed up against the snow
froze something - maybe something in the master cylinder itself.
(there's a diaprham IIRC, of some sort). Thawing out, things
iddn't work so well.

Or, you just hit a line too hard and put a kink in it so
that air seeped in.

 

Can you fix a leaky brake line or does it need to be replaced? That
is, is there any real benefit to trying to pinpoint the leak?

Thanks,
blurp

 

They way Volvo designed the brakes you are using half of each front wheel and
one back wheel. A royal pain to bleed but as you found out this evening worth
the extra work.
Topping off the reservoir would only help if you had someone pump the brakes
while you looked for the leak.
Chris V

 

Well that's great news. I figured repairing a hole in the brake line
was a risky endeavor but I had simply assumed that I'd be replacing
one long line...if the brake line is in sections then having to
replace one leaky section sounds like the best possible situation to
be in when you're strapped for cash

Is it safe to assume that most garages would opt for this solution or
is it standard to push the replacement of the whole line. I can't
actually get under the car myself at this time.

Thanks,
blurp
ps. never use anything but brake fluid when searching for the leak,
right?

 

You can't safely fix a leaky brake line. The benefit of finding the leak is
to see exactly which line requires replacement.

Tried it before... splicing section of line, brazing a patch on the leak...
that is OK for something like an oil cooler line, but very poor and unsafe
practice for a brake line.

On the bright side, brake lines come in a few standardized sizes, and a
generic section, complete with fittings at both ends, should run you about
$10 at an auto parts store. Line wrenches (I wouldn't try using regular
crescent wrenches on brake fittings) in the right size another $10-20.

Anybody out there know what type and diameter of brake line the 240 uses?

 

[ ... ]

The benefit to pinpointing the leak is to determine which piece of
brake line to replace. There are several parts involved in getting
from the master cylinder to the caliper.

Trying to plug a hole in a brake line isn't safe. Find the damaged
part and replace it.


Gary

 

The "whole line" is really broken up into about 3 or more sections between
the master cylinder and the wheels.

No, the piece that you will have to replace may be only inches long, or a
few feet. IIRC, the lines from the master cylinder to the "brake failure"
sensor box are about a foot long, from there more lines between 2-6 feet
long go towards each wheel, but these connect to flexible lines that finally
connect to the calipers. For the back wheels, there are proportioning
valves between the "brake failure" box and the flexible sections. The
flexible sections connect to solid sections that run along the rear axle to
each back wheel.

Generic sections of solid brake line are fairly inexpensive. They are
straight when you buy them, but they are actually meant to be gently bent to
form.

No no, you use a lit match! Wait, that is for fuel leaks

 

All auto brake systems have at least two sections of line per caliper
or cylinder; one flexible piece which attaches to the caliper/cylinder,
and one or more rigid steel pieces which go from the fender well to
the master cylinder and any valves, sensors, or manifolds in between.

Some calipers are two section, so may have two flex lines and sets of
rigid piping.

I'd say it's about 90% certain that you've damaged one of the flex
lines to a front caliper. If you can look under the car or turn the
wheels all the way over and look in from behind, you should see a
lot of fluid on one. A new line kit from IPD runs $68 to $118; I'm
sure there are aftermarket kits for much less.

Very few garages will want to mess with the rigid lines unless it's
necessary. They rarely fail.

After you get this fixed, invest in a folding shovel so you can dig
out a snowbank rather than ramming it.

Correct. Use cheap stuff of the same type in your system; the shop
will flush it all out when bleeding the brakes after replacing the
line.


Gary

 

Wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the flexible pipes to the calipers that
had got ripped. Replace with braided lines and you should be okay.

Cheers, Peter.

: Well that's great news. I figured repairing a hole in the brake line
: was a risky endeavor but I had simply assumed that I'd be replacing
: one long line...if the brake line is in sections then having to
: replace one leaky section sounds like the best possible situation to
: be in when you're strapped for cash
:
: Is it safe to assume that most garages would opt for this solution or
: is it standard to push the replacement of the whole line. I can't
: actually get under the car myself at this time.
:
: Thanks,
: blurp
: ps. never use anything but brake fluid when searching for the leak,
: right?
:
:
:
: On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:21:58 -0000, (Gary Heston)
: wrote:
:
: >In article <>,
: >>Can you fix a leaky brake line or does it need to be replaced? That
: >>is, is there any real benefit to trying to pinpoint the leak?
: > [ ... ]
: >
: >The benefit to pinpointing the leak is to determine which piece of
: >brake line to replace. There are several parts involved in getting
: >from the master cylinder to the caliper.
: >
: >Trying to plug a hole in a brake line isn't safe. Find the damaged
: >part and replace it.
: >
: >
: >Gary
:

 

OK, so I took the car to a new mechanic this morning and I just got
the call. Seems one of the rear calipers is leaking and has soaked the
pads with brake fluid. Recommended solution is replacing the calipers
and pads (+the obligatory bleed and flush) to the tune of $340CAD+tax.
He gave me the option of choosing a used caliper for a savings of
about $60. Since the car is 21 years old I'll probably go with the
used caliper (if he can find one).

Thanks to all for your advice and insight.

Regards,
blurp

 

The caliper must have been leaking to begin with. I have a hard
time believing that leaving the car in a snowbank caused a caliper
to leak.

Anyway IPDUSA has rebuilt calipers for around $100 US (including
a pad). They also have caliper rebuild kits that are $30, and
I'm guessing all you will need are new piston seals.

 

Well I too was surprised by the diagnosis. The mechanic pretty much
expressed the same surprise and suggested that the snowbank was
strictly a coincidence. I'm not familliar how the structure looks and
don't have any diagrams available to me BUT my next thought was that
the brakeline may have been pulled from where it connects to the
caliper, thus damaging the caliper.

Maybe it's a safety issue in the same way that they can't repair a
seatbelt system, they must replace it by law.

Thanks again,
blurp

83 240Turbo 320,000km and counting!

"In the absence of facts I will speculate wildly."

 

Look at the language Blurp used to describe the parking job originally:

"We recently got a huge dump of snow and, since I don't have a
driveway, I had to throw my '83 240 into a snow drift to park it."

To me, this implies he rammed it into a snowdrift. Maybe the snow was forced
above the brake caliper, the warm engine heat caused it to slowly melt and
trickle down into the caliper where it then re-froze and expanded causing
the brake problem.

Doesn't sound like rocket science to me.

 

And let there be no mistake, in my neighborhood the snow piles up
quickly and on my narrow one-way street traffic backs up as soon as
you stop and put your indicator on...the ONLY way to park is by
launching yourself into a snowdrift and digging out later. Sometimes,
if you're lucky, you can stop down the road a bit, come back and dig
out a spot, then return to park in it. This only works when you have
someone to stand in the spot or someone else will capitalize on your
handiwork.

So I got the car back, they put a used caliper in ($50) plus pads
($58) plus fluids and smallparts plaus labour ($160) plus tax,
bringing the whole job to $325CAD.

Thanks again to all contributors.

blurp