Mercedes engine in Volvo?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jan Rutgers
  • Start date Start date
J

Jan Rutgers

I want to set a mercedes diesel enigine in a Volvo 145. Is there anyone who
has expirience with such an operation?
Jan Rutgers, Amsterdam
 
You would be better off putting a 120-150 bhp VW four cylinder diesel engine
into the 145. It would be better matched to the car and cheaper than the one
in a Mercedes Sprinter van. However to get this sort of power and usability
from a Mercedes diesel you would need one which weighed a bit more than the
VW engine and would probably upset the balance of the car. You could also
run into trouble with the gearbox/bellhousing/propshaft set-up. Better to
buy a 240 with VW six-cylinder engine and put it into the 145. You could use
the 740 turbo version or the 760/940 turbo with intercooler version complete
with the ZF autobox.

Best of luck with whichever way you do it, Peter.
 
Peter K L Milnes said:
You would be better off putting a 120-150 bhp VW four cylinder diesel engine
into the 145.
Click to expand...

120-150 BHP? How? I know a guy with a number of Rabbits with that motor,
according to him it's a whopping 55 bhp, and after riding in it I don't
doubt it. The car is about 1000 lbs less than a 140 and can hardly maintain
50 mph up an incline. Or are you referring to the modern (and excellent)
turbodiesel used in the recent Golf TDi's?

It would be better matched to the car and cheaper than the one
in a Mercedes Sprinter van. However to get this sort of power and usability
from a Mercedes diesel you would need one which weighed a bit more than the
VW engine and would probably upset the balance of the car. You could also
run into trouble with the gearbox/bellhousing/propshaft set-up. Better to
buy a 240 with VW six-cylinder engine and put it into the 145. You could use
the 740 turbo version or the 760/940 turbo with intercooler version complete
with the ZF autobox.
Click to expand...


The 6 is rather long and quite heavy, not to mention the oiling problems in
the cylinder head that lead to premature camshaft wear. Even the turbo
intercooled version is only around 130hp, the N/A is 88. I'm not sure which
would be easier, that or the Mercedes, but I do know that Mercedes has made
some very good Diesel engines that are well known for being very long lived,
VW on the other hand has made some rather poor Diesels, the 6 that Volvo
used has an almost universal reputation of being a turd, just try to sell a
Volvo with that motor in it, they go for half of less the price of a
gasoline model.
 
He almost certainly means a new TDI (more then likely a Pumpe-Duese TDI
too) - I'm a huge VW fan (as well as a Volvo fan) and their old diesel
motors can barely move a VW, let alone a big Volvo (two people I work with
own naturally aspirated 1.6L VW diesels........... their cars are scary slow
to drive in - you basically have to drive them with the throttle as an
on/off switch). If you had a NA diesel, with automatic and air-con, VW used
to include a warning sticker about the lack of power - much like the airbag
warning stickers of this generation of cars.
 
Rob Guenther said:
He almost certainly means a new TDI (more then likely a Pumpe-Duese TDI
too) - I'm a huge VW fan (as well as a Volvo fan) and their old diesel
motors can barely move a VW, let alone a big Volvo (two people I work with
own naturally aspirated 1.6L VW diesels........... their cars are scary slow
to drive in - you basically have to drive them with the throttle as an
on/off switch). If you had a NA diesel, with automatic and air-con, VW used
to include a warning sticker about the lack of power - much like the airbag
warning stickers of this generation of cars.
Click to expand...

That would make sense, perhaps he's under the impression that the inline 6
Volvo used in the 200 and 700 series Diesel cars has something in common
with the modern VW Diesel engines aside from the logo stamped on the block
and the type of fuel. The difference between the old 1980's generation and
the modern generation is like night and day.
 
Mine is a modern VW six diesel with turbo and intercooler and has been tuned
to produce 145 bhp and an awful lot more torque than it had before tuning.
Yes it is a mechanically fuelled diesel and yes they can produce gains as
good as an electronically tuned diesel provided you know what you are doing
or have a tame expert.

Cheers, Peter.
 
120-150 BHP? How? I know a guy with a number of Rabbits with that motor,
according to him it's a whopping 55 bhp, and after riding in it I don't
doubt it. The car is about 1000 lbs less than a 140 and can hardly
maintain 50 mph up an incline. Or are you referring to the modern (and
excellent) turbodiesel used in the recent Golf TDi's?
Click to expand...

The more modern VW diesel engines pale in comparison to just about every
other diesel available out there (including some available in the US of
A). Spendy special tools, VW quality, no thanks. Not to mention
noisy. I'll take a Volvo D5 any day.

As for the original subject, there are some Mercedes car diesels that
would probably be a good match (the turbo five out of a W123 body comes to
mind). The problem with a 140 is that the engine compartment was never
designed to fit a long or heavy motor (unlike the 200 series chassis)..
that's what the 164 was for.

If space is a problem, an XD2S or XD3T out of a Peugeot 505 would be an
excellent choice. They're 2.3L and 2.5L, respectively, four cylinder
turbo diesel motors producing about 80hp and 100hp respectively. Compact,
powerful, durable, and ancient. Probably as good a fit as any in a 140
engine bay.

If a VW motor were a requirement, there's always the five banger D20 (and
presumably the D20T) that Volvo used in some of their non-USA models --
2.0L five cylinder.. more apt to fit in a 140. Why anyone would go with
such a clunker is a bit beyond me tho.

One of the problems with going with a more modern engine is that most of
these engines were only used in FWD applications. In the case of the D5,
this is less of a concern as you can still find RWD transmissions (from
the 960) to mate up to it. The older motors (OM617, XD2S/XD3T, D20, etc)
benefit from being used (almost?) exclusively in RWD cars.
 
Alex Zepeda said:
The more modern VW diesel engines pale in comparison to just about every
other diesel available out there (including some available in the US of
A). Spendy special tools, VW quality, no thanks. Not to mention
noisy. I'll take a Volvo D5 any day.
Click to expand...

I think we were talking about Diesels available in North America, there's
not much to choose from aside from big trucks, but the VW TDI is arguably
one of the best available in a passenger car here. I'd love test drive a
Volvo with a D5, I've heard good things about them but they're simply not
available, never seen so much as a picture under the hood of one.

We had a flood of such nasty hack job Diesels back in the arealy 80's that
unfortunatly they got a very bad reputation in general, the Golf TDI is
helping to change that stereotype but it'll still take a long time for the
general population to start accepting Diesel passenger cars.
 
I think we were talking about Diesels available in North America, there's
not much to choose from aside from big trucks, but the VW TDI is arguably
one of the best available in a passenger car here. I'd love test drive a
Volvo with a D5, I've heard good things about them but they're simply not
available, never seen so much as a picture under the hood of one.
Click to expand...

The original poster is in .nl, with access to a wide variety of diesels.
In the US, all of the diesels I mentioned were available (except the
D5). The new TDIs I've heard out here have been somewhat noisier than I
expected.

The *new* TDIs also require some frighteningly expensive tools to do the
timing belts.. not to mention the dubious VW build quality (the older
diesels were probably fairly reliable because VW hadn't stuck electronic
engine management on them). It's pretty easy to label something the best
when there's no competition. Sure MBZ may still be importing diesels, but
they don't compete with the VW models at all.

There were some lousy diesels in the 80s (GM, BMW, and VW all laid some
big stinkers) , but there were some great engines that never really got a
chance. The Peugeot motors (XD2S, XD3T), the Nissan LD28 (of which we
never got the turbo version), the Isuzu car motors, etc never caught on.

If you've never seen a picture of a D5 (it looks pretty much like any
other white block), use Google.
 
Pale in comparison? So why are they touted as some of the worlds most
advanced diesels? My 99.5 Golf is catching up on our 93 Volvo in Kms (120k
vs 160k), and it's had no engine problems - the VW quality problems affected
the gasoline engines, and electric window regulators.... Diesels were
unaffected, except by poor quality MAF sensors, this was a supplier problem,
however.

There are a lot of V-dub drivers at work, no one has had an engine problem.

We've had better luck with our Volvos for reliability, but our VW's never
have left us stranded whereas the Volvo technically has (dead battery...
what can ya do!).
 
No wonder you Americans don't like diesel cars if they only put the
non-turbo charged versions in the cars you buy. The one I am referring to is
1.9 Litres with Pump-Duse fuelling, which is about the latest offering from
VW/Audi. They also produce a very good V6 diesel as well as a monstrous 5
litre V10 diesel for the Touareg and Phaeton vehicles. I think Audi use a V8
diesel as well. All of these engines make a few of your American diesels
look sick, as do the BMW offerings in 4, 6 and v8 cylinder types. Best of
all the European diesel engines (except for some Italian Marine engines) is
the V16, four turbo, 16 Litre Volvo FH16 with 685 bhp and 2200lbsft torque
at 1250 rpm.

Cheers, Peter.
 
The 1.9L 100Hp PD engine is pretty much the only diesel engine sold in a
Canadian passenger car right now... My friend has one in his Jetta, it's a
very nice and QUIET motor - plenty of around town power.

Where does Volvo use that V16? Trucks or for their Penta marine engines?

Sure as hell not in their cars ;-)... Wish they had the D5 over here.
 
Rob said:
The 1.9L 100Hp PD engine is pretty much the only diesel engine sold in a
Canadian passenger car right now... My friend has one in his Jetta, it's a
very nice and QUIET motor - plenty of around town power.

Where does Volvo use that V16? Trucks or for their Penta marine engines?
Click to expand...

No, check out the Passat. It has the 2.0 Pump-Duse fuelling engine that
Peter mentions. 134 hp and 247 lb-ft! I wouldn't buy a new Golf, etc.
with the older 1.9, I'll bet they will get the new motor sooner rather
than later.

At the top end of the price range, the Mercedes E class sedan is also
available in diesel - the E320CDI. 201 hp and 369 lb-ft!

Also the V10 diesel is available in the Touareg - although that may not
be considered a passenger car.


--
Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
 
It is their latest tractor unit Rob. You can get sixteenth scale models from
the Volvo accessory shop. I would love to get one with a maximum size box
trailer and turn it into a mobile house!! What a caravan unit that would
make. I don't know why they restrict the hp on their exports to the North
American continent, it seems such a ridiculous thing to do.

Cheers, Peter.
Rob Guenther said:
The 1.9L 100Hp PD engine is pretty much the only diesel engine sold in a
Canadian passenger car right now... My friend has one in his Jetta, it's a
very nice and QUIET motor - plenty of around town power.

Where does Volvo use that V16? Trucks or for their Penta marine engines?

Sure as hell not in their cars ;-)... Wish they had the D5 over here.
Click to expand...
<snipped>
 
How could I forget their other cars (I'm at the dealer enough for
servicing)... Yah the older 1.9L is mediocre... Needs more power, and the
EGR valves clog up with the soot it produces (it's our fuel I think)... It's
a costly motor to maintain, I know, I own one.... When a 40 grand Volvo is
much cheaper to maintain then a 20 grand Volkswagen you know there is
something wrong... especially when the 6 year older Volvo drives nicer and
gives me the exact same (if not better) feeling that it is reliable and
won't let me down.... I think with the KM's I drive the Volvo might cost me
more tho - and it doesn't have modern features like CD player and I don't
really need the 200 horsepower just for commuting - plus its aweful in
winter.
 
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