Removing Turbo

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cajuemichica

I know my volvo 740 will loose power but my turbo decided to quit
recently and my mechanic quoted $2000 to fix it, which is like twice
the cost of my car nowadays. The turbo failed I think by cracking a
seal or breaking it or something. Tons of smoke in the exhaust (smoke
so thick I couldn't see the road behind me while I limped to the
mechanic).

Now, I have lived in this small town for a while, and I go for up to a
year without using the turbo. I only drive in slow streets.

Now the question is this: I am working on removing the exhaust
manifold (almost there, one more nut). What will happen if I block the
oil intake to the turbo and oil return and remove the turbo? I don't
know how powerful or how exactly does the oil pump getting oil to the
turbo works.

I just want my car to roll, I and the prices for getting a turbo even
a rebuilt are too high. Second hand looks ok, but I don't want to have
to worry about this again in another 5K miles or whatever an used
turbo decide to last. I might as well just remove it. Any encouraging
words, or just go buy used and live with it?
 
Don't do it, you'll be sorry.

The exhaust driven turbine is not spinning now, as the bearing is
shot: this will prevent the exhaust gases from leaving the engine
quickly enough for the car to run correctly.

It is sort of like sticking a potato in the exhaust pipe.

Now, were you to plug the oil orifices and then remove the exhaust
manifold with the turbo on it and substitue a different used exhaust
manifold without a turbo (normally aspirated, or N.A.), you would
still have problems.

That is because the turbo engine uses low compression pistons.

It would be seriously underpowered, bad enough it probably couldn't
make it up a hill of any size, let alone run correctly.

Your best option: bolt on a used exhause manifold w/ turbo and hope
for the best.
 
You can run without a turbo. As you say, you've been doing it for years.
You'll just be one of the more sedate Volvos on the road. Most of the time
in suburban driving, and maybe even on the highway, you won't miss it.
Blocking the oil (and water?) lines is easy. The question is, can you -
easily and economically - remove the turbo and connect your exhaust header
directly? Probably not. I'm not aware of any header system that bolts on in
place of the turbo. Doesn't mean there isn't one - just I'm not aware of it.
If there is such a part, chances are it'll be a small-volume item, at a
correspondingly high price.
Can you fix the seal? These are replaceable. Check with some of the
turbo rebuild outfits, or maybe places like IPD. Remember, you aren't too
worried about your turbo performing to spec - just not blowing oil.
Alternatively, pull a turbo at your local rustyard. Make sure you can bring
it back if it doesn't work. They usually run adequately for 200K or so. Get
one at 100K and you've got half a lifetime left in it. Before you pull it,
take a look at the tail pipe. If it's been leaking oil badly (and, of
course, for other reasons too) there'll be a thick, soft, black coating of
carbon. If the pipe looks normal, it's probably worth a risk.

Pete (fP)
 
I know my volvo 740 will loose power but my turbo decided to quit
recently and my mechanic quoted $2000 to fix it, which is like twice
the cost of my car nowadays. The turbo failed I think by cracking a
seal or breaking it or something. Tons of smoke in the exhaust (smoke
so thick I couldn't see the road behind me while I limped to the
mechanic).

Now, I have lived in this small town for a while, and I go for up to a
year without using the turbo. I only drive in slow streets.

Now the question is this: I am working on removing the exhaust
manifold (almost there, one more nut). What will happen if I block the
oil intake to the turbo and oil return and remove the turbo? I don't
know how powerful or how exactly does the oil pump getting oil to the
turbo works.

I just want my car to roll, I and the prices for getting a turbo even
a rebuilt are too high. Second hand looks ok, but I don't want to have
to worry about this again in another 5K miles or whatever an used
turbo decide to last. I might as well just remove it. Any encouraging
words, or just go buy used and live with it?
Click to expand...


The easiest thing to do is remove wheels off the shaft of the shot turbo,
plug the oil feed and drain lines (disconnected) leave the water connected
as it should be (if its a later watercooled turbo) then re-install the
turbo. Alot easier than messing about with different manifolds / pipework
etc...

Tim..
 
I know my volvo 740 will loose power but my turbo decided to quit
recently and my mechanic quoted $2000 to fix it, which is like twice
the cost of my car nowadays. The turbo failed I think by cracking a
seal or breaking it or something. Tons of smoke in the exhaust (smoke
so thick I couldn't see the road behind me while I limped to the
mechanic).

Now, I have lived in this small town for a while, and I go for up to a
year without using the turbo. I only drive in slow streets.

Now the question is this: I am working on removing the exhaust
manifold (almost there, one more nut). What will happen if I block the
oil intake to the turbo and oil return and remove the turbo? I don't
know how powerful or how exactly does the oil pump getting oil to the
turbo works.

I just want my car to roll, I and the prices for getting a turbo even
a rebuilt are too high. Second hand looks ok, but I don't want to have
to worry about this again in another 5K miles or whatever an used
turbo decide to last. I might as well just remove it. Any encouraging
words, or just go buy used and live with it?
Click to expand...


Either find a good used turbo, rebuild yours, or sell the car and buy one
without a turbo. It's a lot of screwing around to remove it, you'll require
much of the intake and exhaust system from a non-turbo car, you'll have to
find a reliable way to plug the oil supply and return lines, and in the end
you'll have a dangerously anemic hack job of a car with signficantly less
power than the non-turbo version had, and almost zero resale value. In a
nutshell, don't even try it. If you're really desparate, you can get a new
knockoff turbo on ebay for <$200 which should hold up ok to stock power
levels.
 
Thank you guys for the advise. I like the one about removing the
wheels of the turbo best. Sooo, I can just block the oil feed line and
there will be no problem? Say if I put a swagelok plug which mounts in
a steel tube like kids play and can take plenty of pressure I should
be fine. The engine or oil pump will not "explode" or something out of
having that oil line blocked? Just double checking... I just don't
have a clue what kind of pump is an oil pump.

Anyways today I was trying again to remove the last bolt of the
exhaust manifold and it beat me. There isn't enough space to put the
rachet, and the open wrench I have was slipping on the hex head...
drat! I will try again, now that I borrowed a closed wrench. This is
the first time I try playing the mechanic, is there an obvious trick
of the trade I am missing? or some magic tool all mechanics should
have (besides a better brain)? Thanks.

Same problem with the two bolts of the return oil line, and the bolt
at the manifold holder underneath. I'll keep working on it. Those are
the very last ones, after that I can take the turbo off and decide the
next step.

Just an update from today: I read somewhere that you could check the
play in the turbo to decide if it was rebuildable (if play was uniform
and <1/16"). So I removed the exhaust (those were the 3 easiest nuts
to get out). I touched the turbine axis and it has a play of about 1/2
inch :))) It sounded like the dice in a yahtzee game :)) I suspect
rebuilding is out of the question, I very much suspect the turbine and
the casing didn't just meet, but sleep together and had kids :)))
Funny thing is that I actually never heard anything while I was
driving.

By the way, somebody was caution me about the resale value. I don't
think my car has any resale value. I offered the car to a mechanic
that collects volvos and he said he would pay $200. I rather give it
away for free than let it go for that. And I much rather play the
mechanic on the car and learn something than either of those options.
Although I am in no hurry (I bike around) I just can't find a car I
like to replace the volvo. The japanese tin cans scare me (corolla,
sentra, civic), old american cars I just can't trust they will roll
without breaking the bank, the old SUVs are like 10mpg, and actually
have only like 3 stars crash ratings... I don't know, maybe I hoping
for too much, but the Volvo was such a great fit for me. Anyway,
thanks everybody for your help and comments. I really appreciate them.

chc
 
Thank you guys for the advise. I like the one about removing the
wheels of the turbo best. Sooo, I can just block the oil feed line and
there will be no problem? Say if I put a swagelok plug which mounts in
a steel tube like kids play and can take plenty of pressure I should
be fine. The engine or oil pump will not "explode" or something out of
having that oil line blocked? Just double checking... I just don't
have a clue what kind of pump is an oil pump.
Click to expand...


I just never understood the mentality of half assed hack jobs like this.
Unless you're stuck on the side of the road and have to get home, any job
worth doing is worth doing right. You're doing 95% of the work for 2% of the
result of just repairing the turbo you already have or sticking a good used
one on. I see bastardized cars like this in wrecking yards from time to time
and always have to wonder what was going through the person's head at the
time. It makes me cringe.
 
Have to admit that James has a point. Seems like you are doing most of the
work and ending up with a poor result.

If you are keen to learn then why not look into a second hand turbo and
finish the learning process. What you will learn will outweigh the cost of
the second hand turbo.

Be a proud DIY'er but if you have to pay somebody to do all the work then I
may agree, turf the turbo.
 
I just never understood the mentality of half assed hack jobs like this.
Unless you're stuck on the side of the road and have to get home, any job
worth doing is worth doing right. You're doing 95% of the work for 2% of the
result of just repairing the turbo you already have or sticking a good used
one on. I see bastardized cars like this in wrecking yards from time to time
and always have to wonder what was going through the person's head at the
time. It makes me cringe.
Click to expand...

Maybe you didn't read my message. It is true, I might buy a second
hand turbo. But I don't use it much or at all, and I don't want it to
fail again. The resale value of my car is technically ZERO. What is
going through my head is: I DON'T NEED A TURBO. Why the hell to get
one for, when I can live without the trouble of having one. In other
words, If it isn't there it won't break. It is ME driving not you. I
know my roads, I know what I need the car for. I don't take trips, I
don't go in the highway. I can only drive the car for 1 mile trips at
night, and to go grocery shopping once every 15 days, in the steep
hills of central Illinois. I haven't seen the shadow of a hill in 8
years, and I don't expect to see one now.

When you go and buy my car out of the junkyard you can buy a rebuilt
turbo for $600 install it and enjoy the car. I myself might consider
spending $300 on an used turbo, Install it and have it fail on me
again because I don't know how to do the stupid job. For all I know, I
probably won't be able to undo the darn thing anyway. I don't want to
put money on the table that I will loose anyway. There is no
recovering the money regardless of what I do.

Does that answer your question of why "half assed hack jobs" are done
for? They are done, so you can achieve some sort of result with
minimum investment when you estimate the return otherwise or anyway to
be negative.

If I can't loose the last nuts I'll have to trash the car anyway, is
it that hard to understand. When you are a mechanic with experience
all is simple and rosy. Right now I am just thinking of salvaging
something, whatever I can.

Anyway, thank for your opinion.

chc
 
Stuck exhaust manifold nuts can be a real nightmare.

Start by spraying it very liberally with a penetrant, and let it soak
overnight.

I use PB Blaster.

Next, you need to be able to get a wrench on it.

Do you have a ratchet with extension and one of those swivels to put
on the end?

If you can get an angle on it, that is the way to go, otherwise is the
closed end of a hand wrench, preferably one with a slight angle to it,
and work it off.

Just be patient: work on cars is one endless process of problem
solving.

If all else fails, perhaps you could chisel the nut off, provided you
can get the correct angle.
 
I know my volvo 740 will loose power but my turbo decided to quit
recently and my mechanic quoted $2000 to fix it, which is like twice
the cost of my car nowadays. The turbo failed I think by cracking a
seal or breaking it or something. Tons of smoke in the exhaust (smoke
so thick I couldn't see the road behind me while I limped to the
mechanic).

Now, I have lived in this small town for a while, and I go for up to a
year without using the turbo. I only drive in slow streets.

Now the question is this: I am working on removing the exhaust
manifold (almost there, one more nut). What will happen if I block the
oil intake to the turbo and oil return and remove the turbo? I don't
know how powerful or how exactly does the oil pump getting oil to the
turbo works.

I just want my car to roll, I and the prices for getting a turbo even
a rebuilt are too high. Second hand looks ok, but I don't want to have
to worry about this again in another 5K miles or whatever an used
turbo decide to last. I might as well just remove it. Any encouraging
words, or just go buy used and live with it?
Click to expand...

Just do an engine (nonturbo) swap out of a junker? Maybe sell off the
old engine to recoup some?
 
I know my volvo 740 will loose power but my turbo decided to quit
recently and my mechanic quoted $2000 to fix it, which is like twice
the cost of my car nowadays. The turbo failed I think by cracking a
seal or breaking it or something. Tons of smoke in the exhaust (smoke
so thick I couldn't see the road behind me while I limped to the
mechanic).

Now, I have lived in this small town for a while, and I go for up to a
year without using the turbo. I only drive in slow streets.

Now the question is this: I am working on removing the exhaust
manifold (almost there, one more nut). What will happen if I block the
oil intake to the turbo and oil return and remove the turbo? I don't
know how powerful or how exactly does the oil pump getting oil to the
turbo works.

I just want my car to roll, I and the prices for getting a turbo even
a rebuilt are too high. Second hand looks ok, but I don't want to have
to worry about this again in another 5K miles or whatever an used
turbo decide to last. I might as well just remove it. Any encouraging
words, or just go buy used and live with it?
Click to expand...
Predictably, this question comes up fairly often. I haven't heard of anybody
who actually removed a turbo; you are probably seeing it is not a trivial
thing. The results are likely to be worse than you expect, given the low
compression ratio of the turbo engine. You might get better performance
using a dog team to pull the car around.

BTW - have you verified the problem is not just crankcase pressure from
blockages or restrictions in the crankcase ventilation system? Our '85 765T
began creating a massive smoke screen from the exhaust when the ventilation
got bad; the pressure caused the oil to back up in the drain and overflow
into the exhaust. Cleaning the ventilation fixed that. Removing the oil
filler cap and trying to blow through the hose at the turbo inlet should
produce the sort of pressure and flow you would get blowing out a candle. If
it feels like you are blowing through a soda straw something is blocked.

Mike
 
Just an update from today: I read somewhere that you could check the
play in the turbo to decide if it was rebuildable (if play was uniform
and <1/16"). So I removed the exhaust (those were the 3 easiest nuts
to get out). I touched the turbine axis and it has a play of about 1/2
inch :))) It sounded like the dice in a yahtzee game :)) I suspect
rebuilding is out of the question, I very much suspect the turbine and
the casing didn't just meet, but sleep together and had kids :)))
Funny thing is that I actually never heard anything while I was
driving.
Click to expand...
[ ... ]

If the housing isn't damaged, the turbo may rebuildable with just
a cartridge--the center part and wheels as an assembly. If neither
the housing or wheels are damaged, you can probably rebuild it for
the price of bearings and seals. Check around for independent turbo
rebuild shops; you should be able to find a cartridge for less than
$500 and a DIY rebuild kit in the $100 range.

Tip: If you rebuild it yourself, mark the alignment of the housings
to the center by scribing lines across the joints _before_ removing
the housings. There's no one way that they go on; they're oriented
at different angles relative to the cartridge depending upon the
application. If you opt to replace the cartridge yourself, mark the
housings relative to things like oil line connections on the cartridge.

Otherwise, if you find a used one with little play in the shaft, it
should be good for a long time. Keep the oil changed...


Gary
 
Ok, another update.

I just have the turbo and manifold in my hands. Uhu!! Actually the
suggestion of getting swivel ratchet dice was the solution. $15 well
spent on Autozone for a set of 6. These are the ones that have like
double articulation. That way you can rotate the nut making force from
quite an angle. It was just a charm, there is some magic tools after
all. It had to put quite some force into it though. When it finally
gave way, I wasn't sure I had loosen the screw or broken it. Anyway, I
am a happy dog now.

Assuming I can get the turbo off the manifold (I hope the worse part
is past), I think I will try buying the used turbo. The only thing I
am kind of concerned is that the return oil tube became loose from the
engine, and I don't see how it was attached to the engine. It was not
a screw and I can't believe it was a just a pressure fitting in place.
The Haynes manual is not really that helpful there. I wonder if
somebody would like to comment... I mean I will try to put it back,
but I really have no a clue how it went there.

BTW the only other thing is that I couldn't loose the oil feed line
from the engine (the nut is just behind other stuff and inaccessible),
so to actually get the turbo out I had to bend that line out of the
way. Let's hope it doesn't break. I will remove it now that there is
space and clean it well. I will update again once I have done some
progress. Thanks a lot to everybody for the help. It never ceases to
amaze me how awesome the internet is. It is just such an empowering
thing. It is in reality one if not the one most marvelous thing in
modern civilization.

Anyway, thanks guys.

ch
 
Assuming I can get the turbo off the manifold (I hope the worse part
is past), I think I will try buying the used turbo. The only thing I
am kind of concerned is that the return oil tube became loose from the
engine, and I don't see how it was attached to the engine. It was not
a screw and I can't believe it was a just a pressure fitting in place.
The Haynes manual is not really that helpful there. I wonder if
somebody would like to comment... I mean I will try to put it back,
but I really have no a clue how it went there.
Click to expand...

It just pressure fits, it bolts to the turbo and that holds it, the return
oil is not pressurized.


BTW the only other thing is that I couldn't loose the oil feed line
from the engine (the nut is just behind other stuff and inaccessible),
so to actually get the turbo out I had to bend that line out of the
way. Let's hope it doesn't break. I will remove it now that there is
space and clean it well. I will update again once I have done some
progress. Thanks a lot to everybody for the help. It never ceases to
amaze me how awesome the internet is. It is just such an empowering
thing. It is in reality one if not the one most marvelous thing in
modern civilization.
Click to expand...

You can get it with an open end wrench, if the wrench is too thick a bench
grinder can fix that. I usually just leave the line attached to the block
though.
 
If you send the turbo out for a rebuild make sure you get the oil feed
line replaced too. I had this work done and the oil feed was NOT
replaced and the turbo failed 4 months later... replacing the oil feed
tube was a requirement for warranty coverage!

Just one more thing to keep in mind.

blurp
 
Maybe you didn't read my message. It is true, I might buy a second
hand turbo. But I don't use it much or at all, and I don't want it to
fail again. The resale value of my car is technically ZERO.
Click to expand...

The resale value of your car is completely irrelevant to the decision
of whether to repair or not. You could go out and buy another used
car for $5,000. Or you could spend $2,000 to have a mechanic repair
this car. Or you could spend $1,000 for a rebuilt turbo and do the
work yourself. Or you could drive without a turbo. It's your choice,
but don't clutter up the discussion with a lot of irrelevant
information. What you need is transportation so figure out the way
that makes the most sense for your driving needs given the money that
you have to spend on car repairs.


What is
going through my head is: I DON'T NEED A TURBO. Why the hell to get
one for, when I can live without the trouble of having one. In other
words, If it isn't there it won't break. It is ME driving not you. I
know my roads, I know what I need the car for. I don't take trips, I
don't go in the highway. I can only drive the car for 1 mile trips at
night, and to go grocery shopping once every 15 days, in the steep
hills of central Illinois. I haven't seen the shadow of a hill in 8
years, and I don't expect to see one now.
Click to expand...

Does your state have emissions testing? If so, consider that the car
might fail. If that is not a problem and you are willing to live with
a car that will likely be underpowered and get worse milage than with
a turbo then go ahead.

When you go and buy my car out of the junkyard you can buy a rebuilt
turbo for $600 install it and enjoy the car. I myself might consider
spending $300 on an used turbo, Install it and have it fail on me
again because I don't know how to do the stupid job.
Click to expand...

Don't waste your money on a junkyard turbo. It will be likely as worn
as yours.
 
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