RIP My 240; Whats the skinny on 740s

[Willie Bannister]

My 240,1989-2005
216612 miles
She drove away from the accident; you shoulda seen the other guy...


After a bad (really bad) accident, the adjuster has informed me that
they are writing off my 240 and paying me off.

So I am off in search of another vehicle. the old school mechanic we
deal with has a 740 Wagon, circa 1990. and is asking about $1800....

Another reliable vehicle (with functioning A/C) is a much more
attractive prospect than the nightmare scenario of a minivan and monthly
payments....

Whats the general experience been with the 740 versus say 240?

Opinions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[James Sweet]

So I am off in search of another vehicle. the old school mechanic we
deal with has a 740 Wagon, circa 1990. and is asking about $1800....

Another reliable vehicle (with functioning A/C) is a much more
attractive prospect than the nightmare scenario of a minivan and monthly
payments....

Whats the general experience been with the 740 versus say 240?

Opinions are greatly appreciated.

They're mechanically much more similar than they are different. Suspension
is setup different but in those respects they're equally reliable and about
the same to work on, more space under the hood though and the hood will open
fully vertical, nice feature.

Interior is more complex, has more bells & whistles to break, but the air
conditioning works better and the blower motor is MUCH easier to replace.
The only thing I can think of to really watch out for is the headliner, if
it's starting to sag that can be a big job to re-do, but a wagon is a lot
easier than a sedan.

 

[Michael Pardee]

My 240,1989-2005
216612 miles
She drove away from the accident; you shoulda seen the other guy...


After a bad (really bad) accident, the adjuster has informed me that
they are writing off my 240 and paying me off.

So I am off in search of another vehicle. the old school mechanic we
deal with has a 740 Wagon, circa 1990. and is asking about $1800....

Another reliable vehicle (with functioning A/C) is a much more
attractive prospect than the nightmare scenario of a minivan and monthly
payments....

Whats the general experience been with the 740 versus say 240?

Opinions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks

The '90 should be a good car - I'd go for it. The pre-88s (IIRC) had issues,
particularly the crumbling wire harnesses. My 765T is an '85 8^(

If the shocks haven't been replaced they are about due, but I expect a
mechanic-owner is on top of that.

Mike

 

[Roger Levy]

I'd like to follow up on two concerns cited by James and Michael. I
have an 87 740GL sedan with auto, 159K miles, that I've owned 5+ years.
It's running very nicely but it has two problems I'd like to fix. 1)
The roof liner is sagging in the rear, and 2) last week I flicked on the
high beams and the car immediately downshifted! I flicked them on and
off a few times and the car downshifted each time then it stalled while
traveling at 40 MPH. BTW, the car had an alternator problem several
weeks ago which I fixed by replacing the brush/regulator module and the
battery was fully charged when the stall occurred.

You guys said the liner and wiring harness are tough problems. I'm
guessing that the high beam issue indicates a short. Do you have
recommendations?

Roger

 

[don hodgdon]

I'd like to follow up on two concerns cited by James and Michael. I
have an 87 740GL sedan with auto, 159K miles, that I've owned 5+ years.
It's running very nicely but it has two problems I'd like to fix. 1)
The roof liner is sagging in the rear, and 2) last week I flicked on the
high beams and the car immediately downshifted! I flicked them on and
off a few times and the car downshifted each time then it stalled while
traveling at 40 MPH. BTW, the car had an alternator problem several
weeks ago which I fixed by replacing the brush/regulator module and the
battery was fully charged when the stall occurred.

You guys said the liner and wiring harness are tough problems. I'm
guessing that the high beam issue indicates a short. Do you have
recommendations?

Roger

I'd say the cheapest and easiest things to check would be the grounds. All
sorts of strange things can happen on a 70 when the grounds start to fail.
There are strips near the front of each inner fender where many of the
underhood grounds are attached. Clean all the contacts and check the
connectors for corrosion.

You say the car downshifts when you flick the headlights...does the tranny
actually downshift or is it the overdrive cycling on and off?

Don

 

[don hodgdon]

My 240,1989-2005
216612 miles
She drove away from the accident; you shoulda seen the other guy...


After a bad (really bad) accident, the adjuster has informed me that
they are writing off my 240 and paying me off.

So I am off in search of another vehicle. the old school mechanic we
deal with has a 740 Wagon, circa 1990. and is asking about $1800....

Another reliable vehicle (with functioning A/C) is a much more
attractive prospect than the nightmare scenario of a minivan and monthly
payments....

Whats the general experience been with the 740 versus say 240?

Opinions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks

First of all, thank goodness you are OK and that your 240 died protecting
you.

I have one of each, a 242t and a 744ti, both are great cars and both have
their good and bad points as outlined in the above posts. The 740, being the
newer car, is more comfortable, and has a smoother ride, it's my freeway
cruiser. The 240, after renewing the entire electrical system and wiring
harness, is nearly as reliable as the 740, but it is an older car, it's
noisier and the ride is more harsh. I love 'em both and would have a tough
time deciding if I had to give up one of them, but I would think the 740
would be the better choice over the long haul.

Don

'81 242t, 125000mi
'89 744ti, 276000mi

 

[James Sweet]

I'd like to follow up on two concerns cited by James and Michael. I
have an 87 740GL sedan with auto, 159K miles, that I've owned 5+ years.
It's running very nicely but it has two problems I'd like to fix. 1)
The roof liner is sagging in the rear, and 2) last week I flicked on the
high beams and the car immediately downshifted! I flicked them on and
off a few times and the car downshifted each time then it stalled while
traveling at 40 MPH. BTW, the car had an alternator problem several
weeks ago which I fixed by replacing the brush/regulator module and the
battery was fully charged when the stall occurred.

You guys said the liner and wiring harness are tough problems. I'm
guessing that the high beam issue indicates a short. Do you have
recommendations?

The wiring harness is easy, it can be changed in a couple hours if you take
your time, no special tools needed.

The headliner is a several days project, hardest part is getting it in and
out without breaking it. When they made the car they put it in before the
windshield or back window were in place, it can be done without taking out
the glass but it's not easy, you'll have to bend it so far you swear it's
gonna snap.

 

[Michael Pardee]

The headliner is a several days project, hardest part is getting it in and
out without breaking it. When they made the car they put it in before the
windshield or back window were in place, it can be done without taking out
the glass but it's not easy, you'll have to bend it so far you swear it's
gonna snap.

An awful lot of people have used straight pins to fasten the headliner back
up. Mine is just sagging for now.

Mike

 

[Rob Guenther]

I guess this job is quite a bit easier to do on a wagon then?... Just open
the back hatch up.

 

[Pat Quadlander]

Not having done this job, I imagine that the headliner fabric has hidden
sleeves that slide over stiff suspension "ribs" fastened to car ceiling,
and/or the fabric is otherwise pasted up to the ceiling or stiff suspension.

Whatever the skeletal structure, a small needle puncture in the fabric at
the lowest sagging point of the drooping headliner will allow one of those
small plastic straw barrels to poke through, attached to aim a spray
adhesive (several 3M brand products and other brands) to shoot a thin and
spotty sheet of glue up between the headliner and its support system. You
may even have a few/several very small and unseen puncture points if you
have several droops or droop is very large area. When tacky enough to hold,
firmly wedge some flexible objects up against the headliner in several spots
for the recommended curing period. Pick a glue that does not break down and
fail under seasonal changes (record heat or cold temperatures in your area).

Mind you, I've not tried this. Prob'ly very unprofessional, but what do you
have to lose?

 

[Michael Pardee]

Not having done this job, I imagine that the headliner fabric has hidden
sleeves that slide over stiff suspension "ribs" fastened to car ceiling,
and/or the fabric is otherwise pasted up to the ceiling or stiff
suspension.

Whatever the skeletal structure, a small needle puncture in the fabric at
the lowest sagging point of the drooping headliner will allow one of those
small plastic straw barrels to poke through, attached to aim a spray
adhesive (several 3M brand products and other brands) to shoot a thin and
spotty sheet of glue up between the headliner and its support system. You
may even have a few/several very small and unseen puncture points if you
have several droops or droop is very large area. When tacky enough to
hold,
firmly wedge some flexible objects up against the headliner in several
spots
for the recommended curing period. Pick a glue that does not break down
and
fail under seasonal changes (record heat or cold temperatures in your
area).

Mind you, I've not tried this. Prob'ly very unprofessional, but what do
you
have to lose?

Don't know if it applies to Volvo, because I haven't tried to tackle ours
(it just looks like puffy tan clouds... what's wrong with that?), but I
tried spray adhesive on a Dodge we had that had a droopy headliner. The
problem was that the headliner separated at some sort of foam layer that
broke down. The crumbling foam just kept crumbling, leaving debris glued to
the cloth.

Mike

 

[Stewart Hargrave]

Not having done this job, I imagine that the headliner fabric has hidden
sleeves that slide over stiff suspension "ribs" fastened to car ceiling,
and/or the fabric is otherwise pasted up to the ceiling or stiff suspension.

There is a glassfibre shell that the headlining sticks to.

Whatever the skeletal structure, a small needle puncture in the fabric at
the lowest sagging point of the drooping headliner will allow one of those
small plastic straw barrels to poke through, attached to aim a spray
adhesive (several 3M brand products and other brands) to shoot a thin and
spotty sheet of glue up between the headliner and its support system.

I've tried spray adhesive on mine. Unfortunately it is only a
temporary solution - a few days to a few weeks at best. The headlining
material is a thin (and very fragile) material bonded to a foam rubber
backing. When it starts to sag, it is because the foam has started to
collaps, and it seems there is no going back once it has started.

Replacing the headliner is nearly at the top of my 'to do' list over
the next few weeks. But I'm sure glad I have an estate.

If you need a guide to the job, there is useful .pdf file here

http://www.ipdusa.com/pdf/PI-240headliner700.pdf

--

TSH


For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my initials

 

[James Sweet]

Not having done this job, I imagine that the headliner fabric has hidden
sleeves that slide over stiff suspension "ribs" fastened to car ceiling,
and/or the fabric is otherwise pasted up to the ceiling or stiff suspension.

Whatever the skeletal structure, a small needle puncture in the fabric at
the lowest sagging point of the drooping headliner will allow one of those
small plastic straw barrels to poke through, attached to aim a spray
adhesive (several 3M brand products and other brands) to shoot a thin and
spotty sheet of glue up between the headliner and its support system. You
may even have a few/several very small and unseen puncture points if you
have several droops or droop is very large area. When tacky enough to hold,
firmly wedge some flexible objects up against the headliner in several spots
for the recommended curing period. Pick a glue that does not break down and
fail under seasonal changes (record heat or cold temperatures in your area).

The 700 series headliner is on a molded fiberglass backing. Adhesive alone
won't do the trick, the problem is that the foam itself between the cloth
and the backing decomposes, so the only way to fix it is to remove the whole
thing, painstakingly scrub off all the old foam, then ideally paint the
backing with something to seal it, then apply new foamed fabric.

 

[Roger Levy]

I drove the car today at slow speed, either first or second gear,
flicked on the high beams and it immediately stalled out so the problem
seems to have nothing to do with the overdrive relay. The car is
perfectly normal with headlights, it's only the high beams.

I looked for ground wires and the only one clearly visible was coming
directly off the negative battery post and it was attached to a
structural member near the right front wheel well. Things were a bit
cluttered on the left side and I didn't see any grounding there or near
the firewall which is a typical location on other cars. Do I have to
start removing stuff to see other ground wires?

Any wire I could see, ground or otherwise, appeared to have completely
intact insulation and no corrosion at contacts. There's not even a
trace of corrosion at my battery posts. I know that faulty grounds are
widely believed to be the root cause of many Volvo problems but thinking
a bit analytically it doesn't seem like a bad ground, which implies an
open circuit, could be the cause of this problem, i.e. switch on high
beams, open circuit in the headlight electrical path => car stalls makes
no sense. I could see some sense to a short being involved but I would
expect a fuse to blow in that case.

Any other ideas group?

Roger

 

[Michael Pardee]

I drove the car today at slow speed, either first or second gear, flicked
on the high beams and it immediately stalled out so the problem seems to
have nothing to do with the overdrive relay. The car is perfectly normal
with headlights, it's only the high beams.

I looked for ground wires and the only one clearly visible was coming
directly off the negative battery post and it was attached to a structural
member near the right front wheel well. Things were a bit cluttered on
the left side and I didn't see any grounding there or near the firewall
which is a typical location on other cars. Do I have to start removing
stuff to see other ground wires?

Any wire I could see, ground or otherwise, appeared to have completely
intact insulation and no corrosion at contacts. There's not even a trace
of corrosion at my battery posts. I know that faulty grounds are widely
believed to be the root cause of many Volvo problems but thinking a bit
analytically it doesn't seem like a bad ground, which implies an open
circuit, could be the cause of this problem, i.e. switch on high beams,
open circuit in the headlight electrical path => car stalls makes no
sense. I could see some sense to a short being involved but I would
expect a fuse to blow in that case.

Any other ideas group?

Roger

That sounds like shorts in the harness, all right. The insulation in areas
where it is protected is usually okay, so the problem is probably going to
be under the hood. A visual inspection of the small wires where they leave
the covering of the bundles may show up something. Try not to disturb them
more than necessary - you don't want to lose more insuation than necessary
until you reach the point of replacing the harness - but gently separate any
wires that seem too chummy with wires beside them.

If still no go, another thought: does the engine still stall if you unplug
the high beams? If not, I'm thinking the high beams are loading a voltage
down. I've had a lot of trouble with that separate terminal lug on the
positive post of the battery - one time it even caused the engine to die
when making left turns!

Mike

 

[Willie Bannister]

So I am off in search of another vehicle. the old school mechanic we
deal with has a 740 Wagon, circa 1990. and is asking about $1800....

Another reliable vehicle (with functioning A/C) is a much more
attractive prospect than the nightmare scenario of a minivan and monthly
payments....

Whats the general experience been with the 740 versus say 240?

Opinions are greatly appreciated.

They're mechanically much more similar than they are different. Suspension
is setup different but in those respects they're equally reliable and about
the same to work on, more space under the hood though and the hood will open
fully vertical, nice feature.

Interior is more complex, has more bells & whistles to break, but the air
conditioning works better and the blower motor is MUCH easier to replace.
The only thing I can think of to really watch out for is the headliner, if
it's starting to sag that can be a big job to re-do, but a wagon is a lot
easier than a sedan.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the input....I've had conversation as well regarding a '91
940 wagon with a hair over 200K. this vehicle is, in essesnce, a slight
refinement of te 740, is it not???

 

[James Sweet]

Thanks for the input....I've had conversation as well regarding a '91
940 wagon with a hair over 200K. this vehicle is, in essesnce, a slight
refinement of te 740, is it not???

Yes the differences between a late 740 and a 940 are trivial, many of the
body and interior parts are even compatible.