Sad News - new V70 not to have manual transmission

Discussion in 'Volvo V70' started by V70 T5M, Mar 29, 2007.

  1. V70 T5M

    V70 T5M Guest

    Guess I have to move to Audi or BMW.

    The new V70 with the 3.2 I6, won't have a manual transmission
    available.

    Sad - love rowing the gears in the T5 .


    If the turning circle of a R was less than a 18-wheeler, I'd buy one
    of those =in a heartbeat.


    Mat..
     
    V70 T5M, Mar 29, 2007
    #1
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  2. That is because they have Shiftronic. I have Shiftronic and love it. I
    like to leave it in Auto when accelerating and get lightning fast shifts
    at redline. Then use Manual when decelerating or descending. The bonus
    is that my wife can use it as an Automatic.
    That is a trade off with a FWD or AWD vehicle. Most all have atrocious
    turning radii. I guess they are for people who know where they are
    going and don't go around in circles ;) I have learned to manage my
    V70's turning radius and seldom have any problem making U-turns or tight
    turns. I just have to think a little more.
     
    Stephen Henning, Mar 29, 2007
    #2
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  3. V70 T5M

    James Sweet Guest


    IMO you lose any real advantage over a standard automatic transmission
    and in fact just add still more complexity. I know I'm a snob when it
    comes to those things but there's no substitute for a simple manual
    gearbox with a clutch, and once you have the complexity and weight of an
    automatic there's no point in shifting it manually.
     
    James Sweet, Mar 30, 2007
    #3
  4. V70 T5M

    V70 T5M Guest



    Roger that. Why bother if the car can shift without you?


    I've had autos and manuals --- and the V70T5M is one of the sweetest
    cars I've driven.

    Gets 24mpg (combined - commuting) - and hauls when needed. Torque
    steer in spades though.

    The bigger engine would be nice, but the lack of the 6 speed is takes
    the 'sport' out of the wagon.

    V70 T5M
     
    V70 T5M, Mar 31, 2007
    #4
  5. IMHO you loose the advantage of a stick if you don't shift it. If you
    want to reduce weight and complexity take out the heavy engine,
    high-pressure turbo, sun roof and leather. Since 80% of the population
    don't drive sticks anymore, it adds to the complexity to have a stick
    and reduces the resale value. Also, AWD works much better with an
    automatic or at least a shiftronic. I like sticks, but I will buy
    another.
     
    Stephen Henning, Mar 31, 2007
    #5
  6. Because automatic transmissions are dumb. They don't know when to down
    shift. To me the art of knowing when to down shift is the essence of
    being a good driver. If you don't downshift you are going to kill
    yourself coming down Pikes Peak and wear out your brakes prematurely.
     
    Stephen Henning, Mar 31, 2007
    #6
  7. V70 T5M

    Richard Cole Guest

    Not true of all autos. My wife's Citroen C2 auto box (selectomatic type
    with steering wheel paddles and full throttle red line shifting in manual)
    will, when in auto, downshift when it detects that the car is accelerating
    and no throttle is being used.

    On the hill near us (about 1 in 10 or 10%, I don't know how you merkins
    grade slopes), driving in auto mode, if you come over the breast of the
    hill at 30mph, the car will shift down, as many gears as required, and keep
    the speed down to 32mph at the foot of the hill.

    Don't judge all auto boxes by just your experiences, as it obviously misses
    out the modern design of gearboxes.

    Richard
    Web pages: http://www.caravanningnow.co.uk/ for caravanning,
    http://www.rcole.org/ for my personal web site and
    http://www.homeindorset.co.uk because I love the email address.
     
    Richard Cole, Mar 31, 2007
    #7
  8. V70 T5M

    James Sweet Guest


    Huh? The advantage of a stick is lower mechanical losses, lower weight,
    generally improved fuel economy, and it's a whole lot more fun to drive.
    You can't not shift it so I'm not sure where you're going with that one.
    Your suggestions are not realistic, granted I'd gladly take cloth
    over leather but that's hardly a savings of weight or complexity. As for
    resale value it depends on the car. In general Volvos are harder to find
    with manuals and command significantly higher prices on the used market
    than those with automatics. Saab 900 is another example, good luck
    selling one that has a slushbox as anything more than a parts car or
    conversion. 5 speed easily doubles the value of those.
     
    James Sweet, Mar 31, 2007
    #8
  9. V70 T5M

    James Sweet Guest


    How many people come down Pikes Peak? Dunno about you but I'd much
    rather wear out my brakes than my transmission and engine. Downshifting
    has it's place and I do it occasionally, but I see no point in doing it
    regularly. The engine and gearbox are for accelerating, the brakes are
    for slowing down. Besides, every automatic I've ever seen can be
    manually downshifted if you really want to.
     
    James Sweet, Mar 31, 2007
    #9
  10. V70 T5M

    Robert Guest

    Well, everyone else seems to be putting in their two cents, so I guess
    I will too...

    Personally, I prefer an automatic, but for those winding roads where a
    manual would be nice, I'd go with Shiftronic or a similar system,
    especially in the V70 or XC70 -- something I would drive mostly on
    highways. On a C70 or even a V70R I could definitely go with a manual,
    but I wouldn't drive it on the interstate back and forth to work every
    day, either. Sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic on I-95 around
    Baltimore just seems to take the fun out of a manual, you know?
     
    Robert, Mar 31, 2007
    #10
  11. V70 T5M

    Roger Mills Guest

    In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
    Is that on a worldwide basis - or just in the good old US of A?
    --
    Cheers,
    Roger
    ______
    Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
    monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
    PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
     
    Roger Mills, Mar 31, 2007
    #11
  12. V70 T5M

    James Sweet Guest

    Heh that kinda takes the fun out of driving in general. If I have to sit
    on the freeway, I'd rather just take the bus.
     
    James Sweet, Mar 31, 2007
    #12
  13. I never heard of anyone wearing out their transmission or engine using
    engine compression braking. I do it constantly on all my cars, even the
    automatics. Never once have any shown any signs of unusual wear & I
    seldom ever have to change brake components. If you don't down shift on
    Pikes Peak they have check points with gift shops where they make your
    car sit until its brake temperatures come down to normal. They use an
    infrared thermometer. They had too many people killing themselves
    before they enforced it.

    By the way, Pikes Peak in Colorado has a public highway that goes to the
    top, 14,110 feet. The 38-mile round trip to the summit of Pikes Peak
    takes about two hours. The road is a toll road. The record going up is
    10 minutes and 4.6 seconds but that is on a 12.42 mile gravel shortcut.
    Their official advice for descending is "Use your lowest gear to allow
    your engine to brake your vehicle. Don't ride your brakes; this will
    cause them to overheat and drastically reduce their effectiveness."
    Last year a Texas woman died after her brakes failed and she crashed
    while coming down the Pikes Peak Highway.

    The engine is designed to run for thousands of hours with no unusual
    damage. The brakes are designed for a modest amount of braking before
    they need replacing. Brakes use friction which is a destructive method
    that reduces brake pads to dust and produces heat that warps rotors.
    The engine uses air compression which is not destructive and just
    produces heat which is vented out the exhaust.
    I would rather take the back roads, even if it takes longer. Driving
    interstate highways is about as much fun as eating poi. However if
    relaxation and speed are more important than fun, the interstate
    highways it is.
     
    Stephen Henning, Mar 31, 2007
    #13
  14. I thought this was the Volvo group.
     
    Stephen Henning, Mar 31, 2007
    #14
  15. Starting in the 1950's, automatic transmissions have been popular in the
    U.S. In fact, they account for 84% of cars sold in North America. The
    same is not true for the rest of the world. Japan has shifted to mostly
    automatic transmissions and South Korea is shifting. This has, however,
    not been the case in Europe.

    Early automatic transmissions reduced fuel efficiency and power. Where
    fuel is expensive and, thus, engines generally smaller, these penalties
    were more burdensome. In recent years, automatic transmissions have
    significantly improved their efficiency and have drastically closed the
    gap with manual transmissions. Continuously variable transmissions and
    automated manual transmissions promise to be more efficient and produce
    lower levels of emissions than manual transmission vehicles. As a
    result, foreign markets are shifting (no pun intended) to automatics.
    The number of manual transmissions manufactured in the world is starting
    to decline and the number of automatic transmissions is increasing
    rapidly. Many new AT factories are being built.

    The key difference between a manual and an automatic transmission is
    that the manual transmission locks and unlocks different sets of gears
    to the output shaft to achieve the various gear ratios, while in an
    automatic transmission, the same set of gears produces all of the
    different gear ratios. The planetary gearset is the device that makes
    this possible in an automatic transmission. Hence, a modern AT is very
    simple and in some cases lighter than a clutch/manual transmission
    combination.
     
    Stephen Henning, Apr 1, 2007
    #15
  16. I vividly recall a day around 1970, descending a long shallow hill around
    Bonny Doon near Santa Cruz in the San Francisco bay area, driving a Chevy
    with 4-wheel drum brakes. The brakes faded away to nothing, leaving me with
    both feet braced hard against the pedal and the car rolling merrily (bonny?)
    down (doon?) the hill. The car had a two speed "Powerglide" transmission and
    low gear didn't do the job.

    IIRC, the transmission, mated with the 6 cylinder "Turbothrift" engine, did
    more thrifting and gliding than turboing and powering!

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Apr 1, 2007
    #16
  17. V70 T5M

    James Sweet Guest

    Well Volvos are very durable cars, but it's undeniable that engine
    braking will accelerate wear on components, it raises the engine RPM
    which causes the pistons to travel a greater distance, puts load on the
    bearings, etc. That stuff will still probably outlast the rest of the
    car in the case of a Volvo but it does increase wear, just as driving it
    harder does. I don't think most people ever own their cars long enough
    to know just how much of an affect this has. Down long hills yes, it's
    strongly advisable to leave the car in gear to get some engine braking
    but the fact remains that any reasonably modern automatic car can do
    this too by moving the selector to 2 or 1, you don't need some fancy
    electronic pushbutton shifting to do that. I would still argue that a
    standard manual gearbox is superior for this sort of thing as well but
    in either case it's no great skill to be able to downshift, anyone who
    can drive a car in any capacity can do it should they choose to.

    When it comes down to it though I personally can't stand that
    disconnected floaty feeling a torque converter creates. A standard
    gearbox has a nice solid mechanically connected feel and that's all my
    original point ever was, I didn't mean to get into a religious war.
     
    James Sweet, Apr 1, 2007
    #17
  18. V70 T5M

    Roger Mills Guest

    In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
    Yes, I thought as much! So your "80% of the population don't drive sticks
    anymore" needs a fair bit of qualification - particularly in Europe, where I
    live (UK in my particular case).
    The key difference with 'traditional' automatic transmissions was the
    presence of a torque converter (slush pump) which - whilst it eliminated the
    need for a conventional clutch and enabled the geared part of the
    transmission to have a narrower ratio range than a manual - was pretty
    inefficient overall, resulting in poorer fuel economy. It's many years since
    I was involved in automatic transmission design (1970's) but lock-up
    clutches were just coming in then, to by-pass the torque converter at higher
    road speeds.

    I'm not sure that planetary gears are intrinsically more efficient than
    conventional lay-shaft-type gearsets. I suppose that at any point in time
    there are less unused gears churning round in the oil, but at the same time
    they need hydraulically-operated friction clutches to engage the appropriate
    part of the planetary train. There thus needs to be an oil pump to drive the
    hydraulics - which itself consumes power.

    I'm not very familiar with the technology used in the latest automated
    manual boxes. They presumably use centrifugal clutches rather than torque
    converters as a starting device?
    --
    Cheers,
    Roger
    ______
    Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
    monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
    PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
     
    Roger Mills, Apr 1, 2007
    #18
  19. V70 T5M

    Richard Cole Guest

    Richard Cole, Apr 1, 2007
    #19
  20. V70 T5M

    Kytis Guest

    I wish I could say the same. We had an automatic gearbox replaced after
    only 43,000 kms. It just f*****ing let go.

    Just recently, my uncle experienced the same kind of a fault. And guess
    what, he had excatly 43,000 kms on his Ocean Race edition V70. Ours is
    V70 2,4T, yearmodel 2001. I have been writing about this issue in this
    forum as well, so I won't go into the details again. I just thought that
    some of you might find it interesting that Volvo's reputation in
    building solid automatic gearboxes is definitely questionable.

    And we went on buying yet another V70 (ym.2006), and now we have 30,000
    kms in it. I wonder if it will pass 45,000 mark without a clitch...
     
    Kytis, Apr 1, 2007
    #20
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