should 240 turbo run w/o delay valve

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John Roden

I have a 1983, new to me, 240 turbo w/ ci inject. Thanks to this
group, I determined that my "shut down at 3000 rpm" symptoms were
related possibly to the delay valve behind the distributor. I
replaced the rotten vac lines and and ordered a new one, the old one
broke apart on removal.

My problem right now is I can not get the thing running enough to get
it out of the rain and into the garage where I can (also) do the
converter and a few other things.

It will just catch enough to run when the starter is engaged, but dies
as soon as I let off the key. Would a missing delay valve cause these
symptoms, would my catalyst have clogged up that quickly ( was running
ok, not great 100 miles ago) or am I looking at something else? I
really would like to get this thing up in the air where I can tie into
it, but it's dead in the water down the driveway. ANy insights would
be most helpful. Thanks.
 
John Roden said:
I have a 1983, new to me, 240 turbo w/ ci inject. Thanks to this
group, I determined that my "shut down at 3000 rpm" symptoms were
related possibly to the delay valve behind the distributor. I
replaced the rotten vac lines and and ordered a new one, the old one
broke apart on removal.

My problem right now is I can not get the thing running enough to get
it out of the rain and into the garage where I can (also) do the
converter and a few other things.

It will just catch enough to run when the starter is engaged, but dies
as soon as I let off the key. Would a missing delay valve cause these
symptoms, would my catalyst have clogged up that quickly ( was running
ok, not great 100 miles ago) or am I looking at something else? I
really would like to get this thing up in the air where I can tie into
it, but it's dead in the water down the driveway. ANy insights would
be most helpful. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Did someone perhaps fiddle with the fuel mixture adjustment screw in an
attempt to compensate for the bad delay valve and/or vacuum lines? It's very
sensitive.
 
Maybe, I bumped up the idle speed a tad, but the car was running
decent when I bought it and it has been driven for 1000 miles with no
problems. I have been rooting out a lot of electrical problems, maybe
it's a bad wire from the temp sensor, would that cause a no start? Is
the coolant temperature sensor only for the constant idel system on
the CI injection.

Also, would a catalyst go from kind of plugged to causing a no start
quickly, or is it gradual?

Thanks, I'm learning a lot in a hurry...
 
Well, following up to my own message, I have some answers, but more
questions...
I'm not getting fuel. I pulled the fuel pump and hooked it to 12V and
it pumps fine. I jumpered across the relay and the pump works, but it
does not work normally. I feel the relay clicking while I crank the
engine. The engine doesn't run with the relay jumpered, either, but
maybe that's something else.

I am suspecting that one of the systems connected to the relay (air
control and something else) may be at fault, rather than the relay.
Are there some common things to look for in the CI fuel injection?
The wires are in rough shape under the hood, i'm wondering if that is
the problem. I need to spend some quality time with my wire diagrams,
but someone has something to get me started, I'm a little lost on my
new car right now.
 
There is a sensor whose name escapes me this moment (I'm at work so I
don't have the details in front of me) that is hidden under the rubber
cowl that caps the airbox. It isn't normally visible until you unscrew
the the compression ring that holds this rubber cover on (where the
vacuum hoses all start). I was unable to get my 83 240 Turbo started
for several hours because the wire running to this sensor was
shorting. The wire should run along the leftmost edge of the engine
compartment back toward the cabin and across and back down to a small
plug just below the ECM. On my car the plug was orange and just
dangling on the end of the wire (not a socket on another part or
anything) and had a metal clip that was to keep everything securely
connected. This sensor is the one that emits a short and mild buzz as
you turn the key to pre-ignition before starting. This part may be
unique to the Turbo set-up.`

I sprayed the connection and the sensor with wd-40 (to get out the
water) and wrapped the bare part in electrical tape and all was well
again.

It's some sort of "jetronic airflow sensor" or something. If you have
a Haynes it's actually in there with a cryptic cross-section diagram
of the Bosch airbox.

Hope this helps. Where are you located? It would be great to be able
to swap notes on another 83 240 Turbo.

Regards,
blurp
 
John Roden said:
Well, following up to my own message, I have some answers, but more
questions...
I'm not getting fuel. I pulled the fuel pump and hooked it to 12V and
it pumps fine. I jumpered across the relay and the pump works, but it
does not work normally. I feel the relay clicking while I crank the
engine. The engine doesn't run with the relay jumpered, either, but
maybe that's something else.

I am suspecting that one of the systems connected to the relay (air
control and something else) may be at fault, rather than the relay.
Are there some common things to look for in the CI fuel injection?
The wires are in rough shape under the hood, i'm wondering if that is
the problem. I need to spend some quality time with my wire diagrams,
but someone has something to get me started, I'm a little lost on my
new car right now.
Click to expand...

Do you have a spark? There's a wire from the coil, that when disconnected
will prevent the fuel pump from running, how's the underhood wiring in
general? These harnesses are known to deteriorate.
 
Well, it will almost run, until I let the key off so it is getting a
spark. I'm still waiting on my delay valve, so maybe that's the
problem. I managed to forget which way is up on that valve, so I hope
the dealer will be able to advise when i get it. I have the CI
injection and there is a plug under the large rubber plenum that
connects to the air filer box and it is not getting power. The wires
are green and brown, I think this may be a real problem as this is the
thing that opens to allow gas to flow and is also connected to the
fuel pump relay, maybe? I have the bentley, but I'm a bit of a novice
at this.

My wiring harness from the grey connector on the drivers side down
under the intake is absolutly shot, all bare wires. I am thinking
this will need to be dealt with before anything else and have ordered
a new one today.

I have not checked the function of the pump in the gas tank.

I wish I could just get the darn thing running enough to get it into
the garage.

Thanks for the ideas, I will try them now.
 
The part I mentioned in my previous posting is called the Frequency
Valve (at least that's what they called it in Haynes). You also
describe it in your follow-up:
I have the CI injection and there is a plug under the large rubber plenum that
connects to the air filer box and it is not getting power.
Click to expand...

It should get power and emit a short mild buzz at pre-ignition.

That's the bit I was talking about. If it isn't powered you won't
start. Mine was actually stuck on for a while and then wouldn't get
any power at all due to a short.

Good luck,
blurp
 
John Roden said:
Well, it will almost run, until I let the key off so it is getting a
spark. I'm still waiting on my delay valve, so maybe that's the
problem. I managed to forget which way is up on that valve, so I hope
the dealer will be able to advise when i get it. I have the CI
injection and there is a plug under the large rubber plenum that
connects to the air filer box and it is not getting power. The wires
are green and brown, I think this may be a real problem as this is the
thing that opens to allow gas to flow and is also connected to the
fuel pump relay, maybe? I have the bentley, but I'm a bit of a novice
at this.
Click to expand...

That's the frequency valve, it connects to the Lambda Sond control box
that's mounted in the right side footwell area, this system consists of that
valve, the control box, the oxygen sensor, and temperature sensor and it
regulates the fuel mixture. If the frequency valve isn't connected the
engine won't start, you could re tune the mixture so it will run with that
disconnected but it likely won't pass emissions, is the harness that
connects to the frequency valve dangling under the car or stuffed back under
something?
 
John said:
Well, it will almost run, until I let the key off so it is getting a
spark. I'm still waiting on my delay valve, so maybe that's the
problem. I managed to forget which way is up on that valve, so I hope
the dealer will be able to advise when i get it. I have the CI
injection and there is a plug under the large rubber plenum that
connects to the air filer box and it is not getting power. The wires
are green and brown, I think this may be a real problem as this is the
thing that opens to allow gas to flow and is also connected to the
fuel pump relay, maybe? I have the bentley, but I'm a bit of a novice
at this.

My wiring harness from the grey connector on the drivers side down
under the intake is absolutly shot, all bare wires. I am thinking
this will need to be dealt with before anything else and have ordered
a new one today.

I have not checked the function of the pump in the gas tank.

I wish I could just get the darn thing running enough to get it into
the garage.

Thanks for the ideas, I will try them now.
Click to expand...

There's a big power resistor in series with the coil that is switched
out of the circuit by the starter motor. If I remember correctly it's
located on one of the strut towers. Usually the resistor doesn't go
bad, but it can, but more common are the connections to it.
 
I do have a large white resistor (I think) on the left side firewall
that gets quite hot, I was wondering what that was for.

I went out today and bypassed the little silver relay (it looked
rusty, so maybe i need a new one of those also) on the left fenderwall
and powered up the frequency valve (it buzzed) and jumpered fuses 5
and 7 to send fuel up there. Still is not catching. I'm starting to
wonder about my original question and if the lack of the delay valve
is preventing that round device under the intake manifold from opening
and allowing enough air in.

So, I guess I need to sit and wait for my delay valve and wire harness
to arrive. Thanks for the tips, I have learned a lot about my new
car.
 
So, I guess I need to sit and wait for my delay valve and wire harness
to arrive. Thanks for the tips, I have learned a lot about my new
car.
Click to expand...

The only delay valve should be a grey and black one between the thermal
vacuum switch and the bottom side of the control pressure regulator. It
works to provide enrichment before the engine is warmed up. If it is
connected or not has little effect on start up. The other device you
mentioned is the idle control motor (IAC valve). It won't stop the motor
from starting unless one of the hoses is disconnected, creating an
enormous vacuum leak.

If the cam is turning the fuel pumps should run on their own while
cranking the motor, also, the frequency valve will buzz.

It sounds as if either the cam isn't turning or there is no current going
to the coil when the key is in the run position. Jump the fuses as you
have done before and run another jumper from the battery to the ballast
resistor on the fire wall. The dash lights should illuminate and the car
should start when cranked. If it doesn't, it may be flooded, the timing
belt may be broken, the frequency valve may be defective or the frequency
valve relay may be bad or have a bad connection at the plug, or a huge
vacuum leak, or ...

Bob
 
and 7 to send fuel up there. Still is not catching. I'm starting to
wonder about my original question and if the lack of the delay valve
is preventing that round device under the intake manifold from opening
and allowing enough air in.
Click to expand...

The delay valve, like the frequency valve only tweak the fuel mixture.
The car should run (but not well) with the frequency valve disconnected,
the car should get fuel (but may not start) with the delay valve.

I would first want to know where the last part is that's actually getting
fuel.

As far as moving the car, just leave the car in gear (if it's a stick) and
run the starter to get it moved a bit. Even if you do burn out the
starter, they're cheap to replace (and not that difficult if you've got a
big enough hammer).

- alex

'85 244 Turbo
 
If anyone is still following this most boring thread of all time, I
finally did get the thing started by wiggling the rotten wires enough
for it to barf to life and clump into the garage. Now the manifold
and wire harness are out and I'm just waiting on the UPS man.
Hopefully I will be able to figure out where all the wires go, my
notes are pretty greasy.

The wires inside the sheth looked like crumbled cake, I can't believe
the car even ran.
 
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