straight 6 in 760

Discussion in 'Volvo 760' started by bk, Dec 27, 2004.

  1. bk

    bk Guest

    Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6
    engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix?
    and does it last?. If not, how tough would putting a B230 in? bk
     
    bk, Dec 27, 2004
    #1
  2. bk

    Bev A. Kupf Guest

    Do you mean a 960 or a 760? The 760 came with a PRV V6. The 960
    came with an alloy inline 6. The PRV V6 was notorious for needing
    really good maintenance for longevity. Versions of the inline 6
    used in the 960 continue to be used today.

    I don't know, but I imagine it would not be difficult to put a
    B230 into either a 760 or a 960, seeing as it is that Volvo made
    a version of each of those cars with a B230.
     
    Bev A. Kupf, Dec 27, 2004
    #2
  3. Specs may vary between countries; you don't say where you are. In the
    UK, the 760 only had a straight 6 in diesel form. The petrol varients
    were V6 or a turboed 4. Early versions of the V6 engine had problems
    which were pretty well sorted by the time it was fitted to the 760,
    but it was always a thirsty engine and not as powerful as the turbo 4.
    Can't comment about the diesel, but if you are thinking of dropping in
    a B230, why not buy a 740?
    --

    Stewart Hargrave


    For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name
     
    Stewart Hargrave, Dec 27, 2004
    #3
  4. bk

    Rob Guenther Guest

    Or a turbocharged BF230 760 - just about the only type of 760 you'll see
    where I live.

    We have the 1993 960 (with one of the oldest revisions of that engines for
    that model year, car built in Nov 1992) and we haven't had a single engine
    problem - 2,9L Inline 6.... Only bad part is the short durations between
    timing belt changes.
     
    Rob Guenther, Dec 27, 2004
    #4
  5. My understanding is that the PRV 6 was redesigned in 1988, fixing the cam
    and oil passage problems of the earlier PRVs. IIRC the engine designation
    was changed also.

    Mike
     
    Michael Pardee, Dec 27, 2004
    #5
  6. Yes, you are right about the redesigning. The new PRV V6 was in the Peugeot
    605 and the Citroen XM, introduced in 1989. I have a 1992 605 with the V6 -
    engine code ZPJ. It was modifed around 1991 and the ZPJ4 was introduced -
    the same engine but 4 valves per cyl. The kW went from 123 to about 145 and
    the hps from 167 to almost 2000.
    My Peugeot has done 192000 km and the engine is wonderful. Sweet sound,
    plenty of torque, and no problems. However, I do change the oil and filter
    every 5000 km or so. Gas consumption is pretty good. In cold climate, mostly
    city driving with automatic transmission, the average is 12,5 liters/ 100
    kms.

    Ivar Petur
     
    Ívar Pétur Guðnason, Dec 27, 2004
    #6
  7. I'm surprised it was as late as '88.

    However my only experience of the V6 was with a late 70s 264, in its
    B27 guise. My dad had the car before me, and although it was not
    without its faults, we never had the much spoken of oiling or camshaft
    problems. IIRC, between us we put about 225k miles on it, and it was
    still going well when I sold it.

    I seem to be one of the few people on this group with fond memories of
    the early V6.
    --

    Stewart Hargrave


    For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name
     
    Stewart Hargrave, Dec 27, 2004
    #7
  8. Why not try the 760 GLE turbodiesel. It is a straight six and very reliable
    when looked after like all Volvo cars should be. Mileages of 500,000 are not
    uncommon with these engines before they require a top overhaul. Belt changes
    are every 80,000 miles. It is quite economical although the later version
    from 1993 onwards is even better, having hydraulic tappets and an extra
    cambelt idler which is adjustable.They can be very successfully tuned
    yielding very similar gains to electronically controlled diesels. Mine (in a
    '96 model 945) is giving better than 145 bhp (standard is 122 bhp) with
    standard intercooler. If the Italians can fit a 127bhp version in a 780!
    then I am sure anybody can live with a diesel.

    Cheers, Peter.
     
    Peter K L Milnes, Dec 28, 2004
    #8
  9. bk

    James Sweet Guest


    Yes it was made better, though they're still not known for lasting a
    spectacularly long time, and they're not any easier to work on. The 4 cyl
    turbo was more powerful, more dependable, easier to maintain and got better
    fuel economy, there's just not much reason to go with the V6 given a choice.
     
    James Sweet, Dec 28, 2004
    #9
  10. bk

    James Sweet Guest

    What planet is this on? I've only seen a small handfull of the VW inline
    diesels these used in running order, and most of them were smoking badly and
    consuming/leaking oil with little over 100k on them. Seen plenty sitting
    dead in junkyards with busted camshafts or otherwise not running. I drove
    one 760TD once and while highway power was ok the lag was tremendous making
    it scary around town. It was noisy, a little smoky and leaked oil profusely.
    Fuel economy was slightly better than the gasoline 4 but not much. There's
    some very good Diesel engines out there but this is not one of them, it's
    worse than the gasoline V6.
     
    James Sweet, Dec 28, 2004
    #10
  11. bk

    dragon Guest

    Mercedes Benz has some good long lasting diesel engines.. I have a relative
    who has a mid-80s 300 series MB. Engine has if I remember correctly
    somewhere around 650K Kms with no major engine work done. Yes, it smokes
    some but 20 years old engine with that many kms, I can live with that. It
    gets very good gas mileage too.

    Ahmet

    Turkey
     
    dragon, Dec 28, 2004
    #11
  12. bk

    James Sweet Guest

    I know someone with one of those too, the Mercedes Diesel engines do seem to
    be very good.
     
    James Sweet, Dec 28, 2004
    #12
  13. bk

    Rob Guenther Guest

    I'd hope the company that pioneered diesel power in a passenger car would
    still be making some great diesel engines ;-)

    Those old MB diesels are still clattering around Southern Ontario (un-phased
    by our high sulphur diesel, and the salt on our roads that just doesn't
    attack those MB bodies)... I see even more of them around now that gas
    prices are rising... They outnumber, by far, the number of old VW diesels
    around... Volvo diesels are non-existant here... I don't think any must be
    running, I've only seen one and it was years ago.
     
    Rob Guenther, Dec 28, 2004
    #13
  14. Where have you been hiding Mr Sweet? Or have you just kept your head in the
    sand? You obviously know very little about diesel engines and seem to trot
    out the old American dogma about diesels. How many American truckers drive
    petrol engined trucks? Very few indeed as petrol engined trucks lack power
    and driveability as well as having an enormous fuel thirst. Diesel cars are
    on the point of breaking even with Petrol cars in Europe. Even UK market is
    around 35% diesel for new cars. The only problem given by VW/Audi diesels as
    fitted in Volvos is the vacuum pump (made by Pierburg of Germany) which is
    prone to spring breakage at around 150,000 miles or more.

    Please do some real research into the diesel engine and I mean, not using
    hearsay evidence, before you come back with an uninformed reply such as you
    made.

    Cheers, Peter.
     
    Peter K L Milnes, Dec 28, 2004
    #14
  15. bk

    James Sweet Guest


    Do you really have to be such a dick about it? Research? I know a fair
    amount about diesel engines and I know there's a lot of excellent ones out
    there. In a pickup or other large truck diesel is the way to go, I've driven
    a VW Golf TDi which has an excellent diesel engine. The Diesel engine in
    question however is the anemic, noisy and well known to be unreliable inline
    6 which Volvo used in the old 700 series cars. Even though they're quite
    rare in North America, I've personally worked on a couple of them, driven
    one of them, and known several others who have had them. This is not just
    rumors I've pulled out of my ass, IMO it's a shitty engine, not *all*
    Diesels are shitty, but the one that Volvo chose in the 80's is. Any
    mechanic who's worked on them will say that they rarely last over 100k, and
    that's *if* you can find a mechanic willing to touch one. Fuel economy was
    about 28 mpg, not a whole lot better than the 26-27mpg the gasoline inline-4
    will get. Factor in that Diesel fuel is significantly more expensive than
    gasoline (in the US anyway, and I can't control that factor) and the cost to
    run it is about the same. If there's a more "informed" reply than personal
    experience (and what just about any mechanic will tell you) I'd like to know
    where to find it.
     
    James Sweet, Dec 29, 2004
    #15
  16. bk

    Guest Guest

    I will concur the VW sourced 6cyl D24's are truly awful suffering from
    almost all maladies you can think of from failed injection pumps, clogged
    injectors, very poor cam oiling, broken rockers, snapped cams, oil leaks,
    excess smoke, broken rings, etc etc infact you name it they'll do it.

    On top of that at 100k it'll be pretty much shot.

    Avoid

    Tim..
     
    Guest, Dec 29, 2004
    #16
  17. bk

    Mike F Guest

    You forgot cracks in the cylinder heads between the valve openings.
    Perhaps they're good if there looked after by someone who knows and
    loves diesels, but I've never seen a long lasting example, although I
    have to admit I've only ever seen 2 or 3.

    --
    Mike F.
    Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

    Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
    (But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
     
    Mike F, Dec 29, 2004
    #17
  18. bk

    James Sweet Guest

    A guy I know (retired VW mechanic) is crazy about the Diesel Rabbits, he has
    5 or 6 of the things, anyway according to him the 4 cylinder version is a
    solid motor (though it's still noisy, smokey, and underpowered) but the 6
    cylinder has problems getting enough oil to all the valves when cold
    started. He has the special tools needed to time the injection pump after
    replacing a timing belt but it's nearly impossible to find a shop willing to
    work on them anymore. The injection pumps aren't particularly poor, but when
    they do fail they cost as much as the car is worth.
     
    James Sweet, Dec 29, 2004
    #18
  19. That must be the normal for Stateside vehicles but certainly is not where
    European versions are concerned. Perhaps it is down to the attitude of
    American car service people. Perhaps they are ingrained with the general
    American ambience towards all things simpler than a petrol engine. My own is
    almost run-in (reaching peak) at 180,000 miles (in a 945 turbodiesel, '96
    model) and has not even had the head gasket changed. Volkswagen themselves
    achieved 225 bhp with this engine with slight modification to the camshaft
    and swirl chambers. The European attitude to servicing diesel cars is way
    ahead of the American attitude. My Anglo-Swede friend has a 740 turbodiesel
    with well over 200,000 miles which is doing well still, since he added an
    intercooler to it. He says there is nothing to touch it for comfort and
    reliability, particularly when cruising the high speed motorways (no speed
    limit) in Germany and the higher speed limited French Autoroutes. So if you
    would like to experience just how good diesel engined cars are, try a trip
    to Europe to see for yourself. Incidentally although Rudolf Diesel made the
    first working diesel engine it was a stationary type and it came down to an
    Englishman to make it very workable. The English experience is not only with
    four-stroke diesels but also with two-stroke and Sulzer (developed by a
    Swiss engineer) types. Have you heard of these latter two?

    Cheers, Peter
     
    Peter K L Milnes, Dec 30, 2004
    #19
  20. OK, ok

    here is a simple question from someone who has no experience with diesels,
    other then the ones I rent in Europe--

    A Fiat break with a turbo diesel that served fabulously through the French
    and Spanish mountains and made 200 KMPH going down hill with all the windows
    closed--my wife even got into it enough to snap a picture of the speedo at
    200! -- it would go 180 ok and was VERY happy cruising at 160--that's 100
    MPH, BTW.

    We also rented a Renault Megane with a non turbo of per the Renault web site
    either 1.5 or 1.9 L. The Renault did ok, however around 160 KMPH it got bad
    MPGs--it was around 8-10L/100KM whatever that works out to while at 80-100
    KMPH, according to the on board computer it was around 4-5L/100 KM

    Anyway--Direct Injection Diesels are wonderful, and I sure hope they come
    here soon--but as a people we in the USA have about zilch experience with
    light duty diesels--what maintance is required--adjust the valves and change
    the oil--clean the water trap I know but what else?

    Thanks

    --Steve
     
    Steve n Holly, Dec 30, 2004
    #20
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