straight 6 in 760

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bk

Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6
engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix?
and does it last?. If not, how tough would putting a B230 in? bk
 
Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6
engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix?
Click to expand...

Do you mean a 960 or a 760? The 760 came with a PRV V6. The 960
came with an alloy inline 6. The PRV V6 was notorious for needing
really good maintenance for longevity. Versions of the inline 6
used in the 960 continue to be used today.

I don't know, but I imagine it would not be difficult to put a
B230 into either a 760 or a 960, seeing as it is that Volvo made
a version of each of those cars with a B230.
 
Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6
engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix?
and does it last?. If not, how tough would putting a B230 in? bk
Click to expand...

Specs may vary between countries; you don't say where you are. In the
UK, the 760 only had a straight 6 in diesel form. The petrol varients
were V6 or a turboed 4. Early versions of the V6 engine had problems
which were pretty well sorted by the time it was fitted to the 760,
but it was always a thirsty engine and not as powerful as the turbo 4.
Can't comment about the diesel, but if you are thinking of dropping in
a B230, why not buy a 740?
--

Stewart Hargrave


For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name
 
Or a turbocharged BF230 760 - just about the only type of 760 you'll see
where I live.

We have the 1993 960 (with one of the oldest revisions of that engines for
that model year, car built in Nov 1992) and we haven't had a single engine
problem - 2,9L Inline 6.... Only bad part is the short durations between
timing belt changes.
 
bk said:
Thinking about getting a 760, but I have heard that the straight 6
engine has a problem with #5,6 cylinders. Has Volvo come up with a fix?
and does it last?. If not, how tough would putting a B230 in? bk
Click to expand...
My understanding is that the PRV 6 was redesigned in 1988, fixing the cam
and oil passage problems of the earlier PRVs. IIRC the engine designation
was changed also.

Mike
 
Yes, you are right about the redesigning. The new PRV V6 was in the Peugeot
605 and the Citroen XM, introduced in 1989. I have a 1992 605 with the V6 -
engine code ZPJ. It was modifed around 1991 and the ZPJ4 was introduced -
the same engine but 4 valves per cyl. The kW went from 123 to about 145 and
the hps from 167 to almost 2000.
My Peugeot has done 192000 km and the engine is wonderful. Sweet sound,
plenty of torque, and no problems. However, I do change the oil and filter
every 5000 km or so. Gas consumption is pretty good. In cold climate, mostly
city driving with automatic transmission, the average is 12,5 liters/ 100
kms.

Ivar Petur
 
My understanding is that the PRV 6 was redesigned in 1988, fixing the cam
and oil passage problems of the earlier PRVs. IIRC the engine designation
was changed also.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised it was as late as '88.

However my only experience of the V6 was with a late 70s 264, in its
B27 guise. My dad had the car before me, and although it was not
without its faults, we never had the much spoken of oiling or camshaft
problems. IIRC, between us we put about 225k miles on it, and it was
still going well when I sold it.

I seem to be one of the few people on this group with fond memories of
the early V6.
--

Stewart Hargrave


For email, replace 'SpamOnlyToHere' with my name
 
Why not try the 760 GLE turbodiesel. It is a straight six and very reliable
when looked after like all Volvo cars should be. Mileages of 500,000 are not
uncommon with these engines before they require a top overhaul. Belt changes
are every 80,000 miles. It is quite economical although the later version
from 1993 onwards is even better, having hydraulic tappets and an extra
cambelt idler which is adjustable.They can be very successfully tuned
yielding very similar gains to electronically controlled diesels. Mine (in a
'96 model 945) is giving better than 145 bhp (standard is 122 bhp) with
standard intercooler. If the Italians can fit a 127bhp version in a 780!
then I am sure anybody can live with a diesel.

Cheers, Peter.
 
Michael Pardee said:
My understanding is that the PRV 6 was redesigned in 1988, fixing the cam
and oil passage problems of the earlier PRVs. IIRC the engine designation
was changed also.
Click to expand...


Yes it was made better, though they're still not known for lasting a
spectacularly long time, and they're not any easier to work on. The 4 cyl
turbo was more powerful, more dependable, easier to maintain and got better
fuel economy, there's just not much reason to go with the V6 given a choice.
 
Peter K L Milnes said:
Why not try the 760 GLE turbodiesel. It is a straight six and very reliable
when looked after like all Volvo cars should be. Mileages of 500,000 are not
uncommon with these engines before they require a top overhaul.
Click to expand...

What planet is this on? I've only seen a small handfull of the VW inline
diesels these used in running order, and most of them were smoking badly and
consuming/leaking oil with little over 100k on them. Seen plenty sitting
dead in junkyards with busted camshafts or otherwise not running. I drove
one 760TD once and while highway power was ok the lag was tremendous making
it scary around town. It was noisy, a little smoky and leaked oil profusely.
Fuel economy was slightly better than the gasoline 4 but not much. There's
some very good Diesel engines out there but this is not one of them, it's
worse than the gasoline V6.
 
James Sweet said:
What planet is this on? I've only seen a small handfull of the VW inline
diesels these used in running order, and most of them were smoking badly and
consuming/leaking oil with little over 100k on them. Seen plenty sitting
dead in junkyards with busted camshafts or otherwise not running. I drove
one 760TD once and while highway power was ok the lag was tremendous making
it scary around town. It was noisy, a little smoky and leaked oil profusely.
Fuel economy was slightly better than the gasoline 4 but not much. There's
some very good Diesel engines out there but this is not one of them, it's
worse than the gasoline V6.
Click to expand...
Mercedes Benz has some good long lasting diesel engines.. I have a relative
who has a mid-80s 300 series MB. Engine has if I remember correctly
somewhere around 650K Kms with no major engine work done. Yes, it smokes
some but 20 years old engine with that many kms, I can live with that. It
gets very good gas mileage too.

Ahmet

Turkey
 
Mercedes Benz has some good long lasting diesel engines.. I have a relative
who has a mid-80s 300 series MB. Engine has if I remember correctly
somewhere around 650K Kms with no major engine work done. Yes, it smokes
some but 20 years old engine with that many kms, I can live with that. It
gets very good gas mileage too.

Ahmet

Turkey
Click to expand...

I know someone with one of those too, the Mercedes Diesel engines do seem to
be very good.
 
I'd hope the company that pioneered diesel power in a passenger car would
still be making some great diesel engines ;-)

Those old MB diesels are still clattering around Southern Ontario (un-phased
by our high sulphur diesel, and the salt on our roads that just doesn't
attack those MB bodies)... I see even more of them around now that gas
prices are rising... They outnumber, by far, the number of old VW diesels
around... Volvo diesels are non-existant here... I don't think any must be
running, I've only seen one and it was years ago.
 
Where have you been hiding Mr Sweet? Or have you just kept your head in the
sand? You obviously know very little about diesel engines and seem to trot
out the old American dogma about diesels. How many American truckers drive
petrol engined trucks? Very few indeed as petrol engined trucks lack power
and driveability as well as having an enormous fuel thirst. Diesel cars are
on the point of breaking even with Petrol cars in Europe. Even UK market is
around 35% diesel for new cars. The only problem given by VW/Audi diesels as
fitted in Volvos is the vacuum pump (made by Pierburg of Germany) which is
prone to spring breakage at around 150,000 miles or more.

Please do some real research into the diesel engine and I mean, not using
hearsay evidence, before you come back with an uninformed reply such as you
made.

Cheers, Peter.
 
Peter K L Milnes said:
Where have you been hiding Mr Sweet? Or have you just kept your head in the
sand? You obviously know very little about diesel engines and seem to trot
out the old American dogma about diesels. How many American truckers drive
petrol engined trucks? Very few indeed as petrol engined trucks lack power
and driveability as well as having an enormous fuel thirst. Diesel cars are
on the point of breaking even with Petrol cars in Europe. Even UK market is
around 35% diesel for new cars. The only problem given by VW/Audi diesels as
fitted in Volvos is the vacuum pump (made by Pierburg of Germany) which is
prone to spring breakage at around 150,000 miles or more.

Please do some real research into the diesel engine and I mean, not using
hearsay evidence, before you come back with an uninformed reply such as you
made.
Click to expand...


Do you really have to be such a dick about it? Research? I know a fair
amount about diesel engines and I know there's a lot of excellent ones out
there. In a pickup or other large truck diesel is the way to go, I've driven
a VW Golf TDi which has an excellent diesel engine. The Diesel engine in
question however is the anemic, noisy and well known to be unreliable inline
6 which Volvo used in the old 700 series cars. Even though they're quite
rare in North America, I've personally worked on a couple of them, driven
one of them, and known several others who have had them. This is not just
rumors I've pulled out of my ass, IMO it's a shitty engine, not *all*
Diesels are shitty, but the one that Volvo chose in the 80's is. Any
mechanic who's worked on them will say that they rarely last over 100k, and
that's *if* you can find a mechanic willing to touch one. Fuel economy was
about 28 mpg, not a whole lot better than the 26-27mpg the gasoline inline-4
will get. Factor in that Diesel fuel is significantly more expensive than
gasoline (in the US anyway, and I can't control that factor) and the cost to
run it is about the same. If there's a more "informed" reply than personal
experience (and what just about any mechanic will tell you) I'd like to know
where to find it.
 
I will concur the VW sourced 6cyl D24's are truly awful suffering from
almost all maladies you can think of from failed injection pumps, clogged
injectors, very poor cam oiling, broken rockers, snapped cams, oil leaks,
excess smoke, broken rings, etc etc infact you name it they'll do it.

On top of that at 100k it'll be pretty much shot.

Avoid

Tim..
 
Tim (Remove NOSPAM. said:
I will concur the VW sourced 6cyl D24's are truly awful suffering from
almost all maladies you can think of from failed injection pumps, clogged
injectors, very poor cam oiling, broken rockers, snapped cams, oil leaks,
excess smoke, broken rings, etc etc infact you name it they'll do it.

On top of that at 100k it'll be pretty much shot.

Avoid

Tim..
Click to expand...

You forgot cracks in the cylinder heads between the valve openings.
Perhaps they're good if there looked after by someone who knows and
loves diesels, but I've never seen a long lasting example, although I
have to admit I've only ever seen 2 or 3.

--
Mike F.
Thornhill (near Toronto), Ont.

Replace tt with t (twice!) and remove parentheses to email me directly.
(But I check the newsgroup more often than this email address.)
 
Mike F said:
You forgot cracks in the cylinder heads between the valve openings.
Perhaps they're good if there looked after by someone who knows and
loves diesels, but I've never seen a long lasting example, although I
have to admit I've only ever seen 2 or 3.
Click to expand...

A guy I know (retired VW mechanic) is crazy about the Diesel Rabbits, he has
5 or 6 of the things, anyway according to him the 4 cylinder version is a
solid motor (though it's still noisy, smokey, and underpowered) but the 6
cylinder has problems getting enough oil to all the valves when cold
started. He has the special tools needed to time the injection pump after
replacing a timing belt but it's nearly impossible to find a shop willing to
work on them anymore. The injection pumps aren't particularly poor, but when
they do fail they cost as much as the car is worth.
 
That must be the normal for Stateside vehicles but certainly is not where
European versions are concerned. Perhaps it is down to the attitude of
American car service people. Perhaps they are ingrained with the general
American ambience towards all things simpler than a petrol engine. My own is
almost run-in (reaching peak) at 180,000 miles (in a 945 turbodiesel, '96
model) and has not even had the head gasket changed. Volkswagen themselves
achieved 225 bhp with this engine with slight modification to the camshaft
and swirl chambers. The European attitude to servicing diesel cars is way
ahead of the American attitude. My Anglo-Swede friend has a 740 turbodiesel
with well over 200,000 miles which is doing well still, since he added an
intercooler to it. He says there is nothing to touch it for comfort and
reliability, particularly when cruising the high speed motorways (no speed
limit) in Germany and the higher speed limited French Autoroutes. So if you
would like to experience just how good diesel engined cars are, try a trip
to Europe to see for yourself. Incidentally although Rudolf Diesel made the
first working diesel engine it was a stationary type and it came down to an
Englishman to make it very workable. The English experience is not only with
four-stroke diesels but also with two-stroke and Sulzer (developed by a
Swiss engineer) types. Have you heard of these latter two?

Cheers, Peter
 
OK, ok

here is a simple question from someone who has no experience with diesels,
other then the ones I rent in Europe--

A Fiat break with a turbo diesel that served fabulously through the French
and Spanish mountains and made 200 KMPH going down hill with all the windows
closed--my wife even got into it enough to snap a picture of the speedo at
200! -- it would go 180 ok and was VERY happy cruising at 160--that's 100
MPH, BTW.

We also rented a Renault Megane with a non turbo of per the Renault web site
either 1.5 or 1.9 L. The Renault did ok, however around 160 KMPH it got bad
MPGs--it was around 8-10L/100KM whatever that works out to while at 80-100
KMPH, according to the on board computer it was around 4-5L/100 KM

Anyway--Direct Injection Diesels are wonderful, and I sure hope they come
here soon--but as a people we in the USA have about zilch experience with
light duty diesels--what maintance is required--adjust the valves and change
the oil--clean the water trap I know but what else?

Thanks

--Steve
 
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