Sudden Death

  • Thread starter Thread starter jacktheboy
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J

jacktheboy

88 240 wagon, 160k
Normally I drive 55 and I am very strict about it, but it was
Christmas Eve morning and I wanted to get home so I was driving at
65-70 mph on my 1 hour commute. Engine dies without warning.
No suttle or dramatic noise or feeling, just complete and abrupt shut
down.
Put it in nuetral, coast to a stop, engine cranks slugishly but will
not start or even sound like it will catch.
Upon towing car home, noticed an oil stain about 7in around and one
next to it about 5in around, and wet enough to see it was oil if you
wiped it hard with your finger. Checked oil level while stranded and
it looked good. Did this while in panic on shoulder of main highway
with my world crashing and visions of me being killed in some freak
Christmas Eve accident. Have not checked sinc I got it home or been
under to see if theres a hole in my engine.

Known and suspected problems:
In tank pump is dead, and I have been running on main fuel pump.(no
power, poor to no acceleration)
Rear main seal leaking a quart every tank and a half of fuel.( oil all
over bottom of car from tranny back). I stay on top of oil level.
Three weeks prior, I lost heat and drove for at least 1 hour each way
on two commutes (total of 4 seperate hours), thinking I had a faulty
heater control valve (Hose going into valve was hot, hose coming out
was cold). When I replaced valve noticed I did not get much if any
coolant upon disconnecting hoses inside car. Finished install got no
heat, saw no coolant in overflow, added 1 and a 1/2 gallons coolant,
got heat back. (check the easy things first, I could have checked
coolant level when problem arose, but looked for something more
complicated and costly) Noticed then that O-ring on water pump was
seeping, not dripping, but seepage was there. Started to maintain
water level in overflow. Leak did not seem dramatic, and ordered new
gasket set for replacement.
I have never heard or read of a low oil press. shut down feature , is
this wishfull thinking. Have I neglected my car to death.
Ray
 
I"jacktheboy said:
88 240 wagon, 160k
Normally I drive 55 and I am very strict about it, but it was
Christmas Eve morning and I wanted to get home so I was driving at
65-70 mph on my 1 hour commute. Engine dies without warning.
No suttle or dramatic noise or feeling, just complete and abrupt shut
down.
Put it in nuetral, coast to a stop, engine cranks slugishly but will
not start or even sound like it will catch.
Upon towing car home, noticed an oil stain about 7in around and one
next to it about 5in around, and wet enough to see it was oil if you
wiped it hard with your finger. Checked oil level while stranded and
it looked good. Did this while in panic on shoulder of main highway
with my world crashing and visions of me being killed in some freak
Christmas Eve accident. Have not checked sinc I got it home or been
under to see if theres a hole in my engine.

Known and suspected problems:
In tank pump is dead, and I have been running on main fuel pump.(no
power, poor to no acceleration)
Rear main seal leaking a quart every tank and a half of fuel.( oil all
over bottom of car from tranny back). I stay on top of oil level.
Three weeks prior, I lost heat and drove for at least 1 hour each way
on two commutes (total of 4 seperate hours), thinking I had a faulty
heater control valve (Hose going into valve was hot, hose coming out
was cold). When I replaced valve noticed I did not get much if any
coolant upon disconnecting hoses inside car. Finished install got no
heat, saw no coolant in overflow, added 1 and a 1/2 gallons coolant,
got heat back. (check the easy things first, I could have checked
coolant level when problem arose, but looked for something more
complicated and costly) Noticed then that O-ring on water pump was
seeping, not dripping, but seepage was there. Started to maintain
water level in overflow. Leak did not seem dramatic, and ordered new
gasket set for replacement.
I have never heard or read of a low oil press. shut down feature , is
this wishfull thinking. Have I neglected my car to death.
Click to expand...

Did your timing belt break. With all these oil leaks etc, I would not
be surprised if your timing belt broke. Usually when the timing belt
breaks the engine is very quiet when you crank the engine because there
is no valve noise and no compression.

One word of warning. Coolant and oil are the life blood of an engine.
Much more important than cabin heat. Check you levels regularly. Your
car is obviously on its last legs unless you get it fixed.
 
With no noise I'd guess it was NOT the timing belt. I've only had one
break, ( '76 Civic.non-intereferrence engine), and it was noisy
flopping around as the engine spun down. I can't imagine how noisy an
interference B-21 is. My guess is fuel pump relay

Did your timing belt break. With all these oil leaks etc, I would not
be surprised if your timing belt broke. Usually when the timing belt
breaks the engine is very quiet when you crank the engine because there
is no valve noise and no compression.

One word of warning. Coolant and oil are the life blood of an engine.
Much more important than cabin heat. Check you levels regularly. Your
car is obviously on its last legs unless you get it fixed.
Click to expand...

Ron/Champ 6

1963 8E5 Champ (Champ 6)
1995 VW Passat (Vanilla..yuk)
1994 Volvo 850 (Tilley)
1973 Volvo 1800 ES (Hyacinth Bucket)
 
In <[email protected]>,
Ron said:
With no noise I'd guess it was NOT the timing belt. I've only had one
break, ( '76 Civic.non-intereferrence engine), and it was noisy
flopping around as the engine spun down. I can't imagine how noisy an
interference B-21 is. My guess is fuel pump relay
Click to expand...

Agreed. I also think it is the FPR - whose failure is fairly notorious
for that model year. Also, the engine would most likely be a
non-interference B230 in a '88 240.

AC
 
jacktheboy said:
88 240 wagon, 160k
Normally I drive 55 and I am very strict about it, but it was
Christmas Eve morning and I wanted to get home so I was driving at
65-70 mph on my 1 hour commute. Engine dies without warning.
No suttle or dramatic noise or feeling, just complete and abrupt shut
down.
Put it in nuetral, coast to a stop, engine cranks slugishly but will
not start or even sound like it will catch.
Upon towing car home, noticed an oil stain about 7in around and one
next to it about 5in around, and wet enough to see it was oil if you
wiped it hard with your finger. Checked oil level while stranded and
it looked good. Did this while in panic on shoulder of main highway
with my world crashing and visions of me being killed in some freak
Christmas Eve accident. Have not checked sinc I got it home or been
under to see if theres a hole in my engine.

Known and suspected problems:
In tank pump is dead, and I have been running on main fuel pump.(no
power, poor to no acceleration)
Rear main seal leaking a quart every tank and a half of fuel.( oil all
over bottom of car from tranny back). I stay on top of oil level.
Three weeks prior, I lost heat and drove for at least 1 hour each way
on two commutes (total of 4 seperate hours), thinking I had a faulty
heater control valve (Hose going into valve was hot, hose coming out
was cold). When I replaced valve noticed I did not get much if any
coolant upon disconnecting hoses inside car. Finished install got no
heat, saw no coolant in overflow, added 1 and a 1/2 gallons coolant,
got heat back. (check the easy things first, I could have checked
coolant level when problem arose, but looked for something more
complicated and costly) Noticed then that O-ring on water pump was
seeping, not dripping, but seepage was there. Started to maintain
water level in overflow. Leak did not seem dramatic, and ordered new
gasket set for replacement.
I have never heard or read of a low oil press. shut down feature , is
this wishfull thinking. Have I neglected my car to death.
Ray
Click to expand...


Sounds like Santa wants you to have a new car!

As one who drove 240s for about 20 yrs or so (musta been a masochist) I
know it's necessary to have a catastrophic failure to finally realize
it's time for something better.

I know, I know - even though the main seal and water pump are drooling,
and the car barely was running, you still want to have someone tell you
everything's gonna be OK - so go to the Brickboard and you'll find
plenty of folks who'll commiserate with you and tell you the ol' gal is
worth saving:

http://brickboard.com/

But they're wrong (trust me) - just find yourself a nice 940 Turbo or
960 wagon and discover there's something better.
 
Ron said:
With no noise I'd guess it was NOT the timing belt. I've only had one
break, ( '76 Civic.non-intereferrence engine), and it was noisy
flopping around as the engine spun down. I can't imagine how noisy an
interference B-21 is. My guess is fuel pump relay
Click to expand...

None of the redblock 8 valve engines were interference, at least not
those used in the US market.

Still, if the timing belt broke the engine will not sound right when you
crank it.

Verify fuel flow, when my main pump failed the motor in it was still
running, it was just not pumping. If your tank pump was bad you may well
have killed the main pump, that puts a lot of strain on it.

Also replace the engine wiring harness if you have not already, in that
year car it will be bad.

How's the cosmetic shape? 240s are fantastic cars, they're easy to work
on and will run pretty much forever very cheaply so long as you take
care of the well documented issues that pop up at certain ages. I've
driven other cars but whenever I hop back in my 240 I know why I've kept
it all this time.
 
Check the fuel filter. My old car (95 850) was sold to the local
butcher and randomly died with no warning or any change except for the
motor no longer running. Wait ten minutes or so, it would catch when
turned over and run as if nothing had happened.

If you're getting lots of fluids coming out, check to make sure that
there is no mixing (main gaskets are gone and block is probably
cracked.)

Does sound as if it is time to start reading the local buy-and-sell
newspapers and finind out who handles Volvo lease returns in your area.
Get a more recent one for about 5-8 thousand less than the dealers
charge.

I got my 2001 V40 that way and saved 3 thousand right from the get-go
(figure in the dealer prep and taxes and you're pushing 5 thou).
 
Ron said:
With no noise I'd guess it was NOT the timing belt. I've only had one
break, ( '76 Civic.non-intereferrence engine), and it was noisy
flopping around as the engine spun down. I can't imagine how noisy an
interference B-21 is. My guess is fuel pump relay
Click to expand...

Some education please. What does the term "interference engine" mean?
 
Some education please. What does the term "interference engine" mean?
Click to expand...

Means that in normal operation, the valves extend into the cylinder
below the highest point in the pistons' travel--so if the timing belt
breaks, some of the pistons will hit extended valves, damaging both
the piston and valve, requiring engine replacement.


Gary
 
Mike said:
Some education please. What does the term "interference engine" mean?
Click to expand...


Moving components inside an interference engine, namely the pistons and
the valves occupy the same space, just not at the same time. Broken
timing belt causes the valves to stop moving while the pistons continue
and things crash resulting in anything from a few bent valves to a
pretty well destroyed engine. Virtually all engines with more than 2
valves per cylinder are of the interference design, as are some with only 2.
 
Gary Heston said:
Means that in normal operation, the valves extend into the cylinder
below the highest point in the pistons' travel--so if the timing belt
breaks, some of the pistons will hit extended valves, damaging both
the piston and valve, requiring engine replacement.
Click to expand...
I see. Thanks, that makes it completely clear. Presumably, then if you
had a high compression engine, say a diesel, it would likely be an
interference type?
 
I see. Thanks, that makes it completely clear. Presumably, then if you
had a high compression engine, say a diesel, it would likely be an
interference type?
Click to expand...


Yes, I'm not aware of any non-interference Diesel engines, the
compression is *so* much higher than a gasoline engine that you really
can't have much empty space at the top of the cylinder.
 
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