Volvo 340 dying on me!

I have a Volvo 340 (GL 1.7 1990) which is causing me grief at the
moment.

Initially the car was having problems in motorway driving. A loss of
power occured at 50 mph where the revs just died and then the car
stalled. Hubby stopped driving it on the motorway and we swapped cars.
I was using it as a local run about - driving 15 - 20 mins to my work
and back and it seemed fine.

Then it started not restarting when warm. Did this on several
occasions and could take up to 1/2 an hour to get her restarted again.

Car then went in for its MOT and service. After this seemed fine again
for about a month. But recently she has started having problems again.

First off first thing in the morning she would start and then die
immediately then it would take another couple of attempts with choke
fully out to start her. But apart from that OK. Then she stalled going
up a hill at a junction near my work. She then did this three days in
a row at exactly the same place.

Then the other night we took her out together. Seemed not too bad at
first but kind of rough idling and then started cutting out again at
speed. We were doing maybe 40 - 50mph and the revs would just totally
die (and at this point we could hear a kind of hissing?). Once or
twice they came back up again and the car bucked. Other times she
would stall and it would take a few attempts to get her started again.

Now the car has had a fair amount of maintenance done on her in the
last year. New distributor and rotor arm, new leads, sparks etc
(twice) and a completely new carb (when we were advised by a Volvo
dealer that was what was causing the problem). As you can imagine we
are getting somewhat frustrated with it all as it seems no-one knows
what is up with her.

From what I read on here I wonder if it is a dying fuel pump? Or a
blockage in the fuel line? Or does anyone have any other ideas?

The car is booked into the garage next week but just wanted to get
some more volvo related opinion form this group as I don't have a
great deal of faith in our mechanic getting to the source of the
problem. Any help or advice very gratefully recieived.

DD

 

I would change the fuel filter as it seems like it is getting blocked. These
symptoms occur with a fuel line blockage. There may also be a small filter at
the fuel inlet to the carburettor and if a mechanical fuel pump is fitted one on
the pickup side of the pump.

Cheers, Peter.

: I have a Volvo 340 (GL 1.7 1990) which is causing me grief at the
: moment.
:
: Initially the car was having problems in motorway driving. A loss of
: power occured at 50 mph where the revs just died and then the car
: stalled. Hubby stopped driving it on the motorway and we swapped cars.
: I was using it as a local run about - driving 15 - 20 mins to my work
: and back and it seemed fine.
:
: Then it started not restarting when warm. Did this on several
: occasions and could take up to 1/2 an hour to get her restarted again.
:
: Car then went in for its MOT and service. After this seemed fine again
: for about a month. But recently she has started having problems again.
:
: First off first thing in the morning she would start and then die
: immediately then it would take another couple of attempts with choke
: fully out to start her. But apart from that OK. Then she stalled going
: up a hill at a junction near my work. She then did this three days in
: a row at exactly the same place.
:
: Then the other night we took her out together. Seemed not too bad at
: first but kind of rough idling and then started cutting out again at
: speed. We were doing maybe 40 - 50mph and the revs would just totally
: die (and at this point we could hear a kind of hissing?). Once or
: twice they came back up again and the car bucked. Other times she
: would stall and it would take a few attempts to get her started again.
:
: Now the car has had a fair amount of maintenance done on her in the
: last year. New distributor and rotor arm, new leads, sparks etc
: (twice) and a completely new carb (when we were advised by a Volvo
: dealer that was what was causing the problem). As you can imagine we
: are getting somewhat frustrated with it all as it seems no-one knows
: what is up with her.
:
: From what I read on here I wonder if it is a dying fuel pump? Or a
: blockage in the fuel line? Or does anyone have any other ideas?
:
: The car is booked into the garage next week but just wanted to get
: some more volvo related opinion form this group as I don't have a
: great deal of faith in our mechanic getting to the source of the
: problem. Any help or advice very gratefully recieived.
:
: DD

 

Hi Peter cheers for the reply. The (main) fuel filter has been changed
recently - well certianly within the last 6 months when we had the new
carb fitted. And the car has just gone thro a service where I am
pretty sure the fuel filter was changed. But it is certainly worth a
check I would presume as these filters are pretty cheap aren't they?
Certainly cheaper than a fuel pump.....will give it a go and let you
know how we get on.

Cheers

DD

 

2 major problems with these cars
1. carbs - you've replaced it, assuming its a new one and new gasket etc,
should have eliminated that unless your mechanic doesn't know Volvos well
(not common).
2. Ignition - rear cam driven distributor leaks oil into the distributor
cap by condensation. Causes stalling at junction on application of power.
Can be improved in some cases, sometime needs expensive new cam and very
carefull assembly..

Fuel pumps and filters ar not common problems.
My advice - get rid of it and buy a low mileage 360. Not as economical on
fuel but bomb proof and no design problems. All problem fixable cheaply.
1.7 Renault Engine, bad
2.0 Volvo Engine, the dogs bollocks

 

I have seen in Europe that mechanics just forgot to replace things.

You can check this by looking in it.

We had a 360 very long, never problems. With a 1.4 Renault engine!

Pieter Hoeben

 

Hi,

- not restarting when the motor is warm may happen if there are air
bubbels or gasoline vapour when things get too hot in the fuel line.
Maybe some leaks somewhere? And check where the fule line runs.

- another thing I saw once: in the gasonline tak you get a vacuum if
the small hole in the (sorry, I'm Dutch, hope this is the right word)
cap that remove to refuel (you knwo what I mean) is blocked. You get
vacuum and you car can't get enough fuel.

-stalling up hill can either be because your car needs more gasonline
and can't supply it, or something is angle-dependent. Maybe you fuel
pump can't get the gasonline up: when you go UP hil, the gasonline
goes upwards too. So it could be at the end of its life.

Regards,

Pieter Hoeben

 

Thats odd, I thought European 360's were all 2.0L B19/B200 engines.

The B14 is not as bad as the B172 for reliability, carbs and cam don't
usually get expensive to fix problems. If they had put a decent carb /
manifold and standard intermediate shaft driven distributor it would have
been a good engine.

 

I've been thinking about this and I'm sure we can get to the bottom of it.

This is a contradiction. I guess you mean just a loss of power and the
engine died. Was it total a loss or did it start by missing / stuttering?
I don't understand how the revs died then it stalled. Did you clutch-in and
ty to rev up the engine?

Gradually loss with stuttering can be fuel problems, one of which is carb
icing which happen in the cold if your warm air thermostat is faulty or the
warm air feed is missing or damaged.

Total fuel blockage is very unlikely, there are several filters each of
which is very difficult to block in one go, presuming the main consumables
have been changed.

Ignition problems at low revs can be reved out off usually, but can be
difficult to restart if you let it die.

Hubby stopped driving it on the motorway and we swapped cars.

Consistent with carb icing. Did the car run fine after it restarted? Was
it cold or misty?

Not consistent with carb icing or oil in the distributor, but could just be
bad carb adjustments /assembly, burnt exhaust valves or just general old car
syndrome. Not that its not fixable, it just might not be linked to other
fault.

Rough idleing, could be leaky ignition due to old leads / damp / oil in
distributor.
Idleing is controlled by a seperate fuel circuit in the carb, so any
problems here and the car wouldn't run at idle.

We were doing maybe 40 - 50mph and the revs would just totally

This could be the typical problem of the warping manifold / carb and
subsequent air leakage, but it would not normally stop the car unless you
refused to rev it (clutch in and pump the accelerator until you get it
running properly), or simply put it in a lower gear.
Hissing can happen as a result of very bad ignition, when air pressurised in
the cylinder leaks out through the imperfectly sealed valved, not having
exploded. It does depend on what you mean by hissing.

Once or

I doubt the fuel pump would fail in this way, or even a blockage. Pieter
mentions a possible blockage in the tank breather causing a vacuum to form
in the tank. I used to get this in my 340 1.4 (you'd hear a sucking sound
when you pulled of the filler cap), but it never stopped the engine. Also I
think the 1.7 breather is better designed.

Rough idleing then cutting out at speed - ignition, air or fuel, one of them
won't have all the symtoms as severly as you describe.

Its very strange all the symptoms sort of contradict each other .

I get the feeling you're maybe not making any sensible attempts to keep it
going by increasing the revs and by trying to push a sick car along at low
revs you are masking the real symptoms. Having said that it might not be
useful unless you know what you are doing. Try playing with pumping the
accelerator or gently increasing your foot pressure on it to encourage it to
rev up.

As I've already mentioned the 1.7s are quite bad for having very difficult
to fix problems. A family members car had a similar problem for about 6
months (longer if you include the time they didn't drive it for), I
discovered the problem after the first few months, then took remaing year or
so to try to eliminate it (was a bit intemittent). I managed a 99% cure
eventually, I drove the car for about 1 year aswell after taking it on when
another family member didn't need it. However I could detect that
occasionally it would threaten to come back, but never caused severe
problems. That pretty much sealed the cars fate, and my opinion of the 1.7.

 

I've been thinking about this and I'm sure we can get to the bottom of
it.
+++ Hi Tony thanks for all your comments. I'll try and answer them the
best I can (I'm not very technically worded)

This is a contradiction. I guess you mean just a loss of power and
the
engine died. Was it total a loss or did it start by missing /
stuttering?
I don't understand how the revs died then it stalled. Did you
clutch-in and
ty to rev up the engine?

+++ Was hubby that was driving when this happened so don't know for
sure. But what I understand to have happened is this: car is doing
50mph then started to lose power going down to maybe 30mph and then
the revs just dropped like a stone to 0mph and all the lights on the
dash came on = car stalled. Not sure on this occasion but there has
been hesitation and stuttering as well.


Gradually loss with stuttering can be fuel problems, one of which is
carb
icing which happen in the cold if your warm air thermostat is faulty
or the
warm air feed is missing or damaged.
+++ not cold. Mild summers morning and evening.


Total fuel blockage is very unlikely, there are several filters each
of
which is very difficult to block in one go, presuming the main
consumables
have been changed.

Ignition problems at low revs can be reved out off usually, but can be
difficult to restart if you let it die.
+++ I think this has happened in the past as well (before the carb was
changed) where hubby 'revved hell out of it' and the problem went
away....for that day anyway




Hubby stopped driving it on the motorway and we swapped cars.

Consistent with carb icing. Did the car run fine after it restarted?
Was
it cold or misty?
+++ no again warm summers day. And no the car was still the same after
restarting.

Not consistent with carb icing or oil in the distributor, but could
just be
bad carb adjustments /assembly, burnt exhaust valves or just general
old car
syndrome. Not that its not fixable, it just might not be linked to
other
fault.
+++ well we have had a problem with the car hesitating at certain gear
changes (mainly 3rd and 4th) which now seems might be related. Our
mechanic looked at it and said it was carbon buildup on the valves
(forgive me if that is not correct terms?) caused by age he said and
put an engine treatment into it which seemed to make the problem
better but didn't solve it completely.

Rough idleing, could be leaky ignition due to old leads / damp / oil
in
distributor.
+++ new leads and oil as just been serviced. Distributor cap changed
about a year ago. Maybe needing new one? Mechanic did say there was a
lot of oil around the engine when he serviced it and wanted to get it
in and steam clean it to find out where it was coming from. Do you
think then it could be oil in distributor cap?

Idleing is controlled by a seperate fuel circuit in the carb, so any
problems here and the car wouldn't run at idle.
+++ car isn't bad at idle...cept when this problem starts to occur.


We were doing maybe 40 - 50mph and the revs would just totally

This could be the typical problem of the warping manifold / carb and
subsequent air leakage, but it would not normally stop the car unless
you
refused to rev it (clutch in and pump the accelerator until you get it
running properly), or simply put it in a lower gear.
+++ well the other day when it happened I was going maybe 20 - 25mph
in 3rd or 4th (can't rem) and when I noticed there was no power in the
accelerator I started to pump the acc and change down gears but the
revs just slowly dropped to 0mph as if nothing I was doing was
helping. I suppose it could be warped manifold but I think the new
carb came with an adpation kit that was supposed to seal that up?
Hubby seems to be able to drive the car when she starts this by
keeping the choke out and keeping her in high revs.


Hissing can happen as a result of very bad ignition, when air
pressurised in
the cylinder leaks out through the imperfectly sealed valved, not
having
exploded. It does depend on what you mean by hissing.
+++ I dunno...just seemed to be a faint hissing / noise coming from
the front drivers side of the car when it was losing power?




Once or

I doubt the fuel pump would fail in this way, or even a blockage.
Pieter
mentions a possible blockage in the tank breather causing a vacuum to
form
in the tank. I used to get this in my 340 1.4 (you'd hear a sucking
sound
when you pulled of the filler cap), but it never stopped the engine.
Also I
think the 1.7 breather is better designed.
+++ yeah this has never happened to us.

Rough idleing then cutting out at speed - ignition, air or fuel, one
of them
won't have all the symtoms as severly as you describe.

Its very strange all the symptoms sort of contradict each other .
+++ maybe it is my descriptions? But it would seem strange that it
could be a combination doens't it? I am now beginning to wonder if it
was this causing the problem the whole time and not the carb though it
was the volvo dealership that told us the carb was warped. It is the
same symptoms that led us to get the carb changed?




I get the feeling you're maybe not making any sensible attempts to
keep it
going by increasing the revs and by trying to push a sick car along at
low
revs you are masking the real symptoms. Having said that it might not
be
useful unless you know what you are doing. Try playing with pumping
the
accelerator or gently increasing your foot pressure on it to encourage
it to
rev up.
+++ well I (we) don't really know what we are doing. But at the end of
the day unless it is to get out of emergency situations I don't care
about making the car 'go'. I just want it fixed so it doesn't happen
again. She is a great car to drive when she is running properly.



As I've already mentioned the 1.7s are quite bad for having very
difficult
to fix problems. A family members car had a similar problem for about
6
months (longer if you include the time they didn't drive it for), I
discovered the problem after the first few months, then took remaing
year or
so to try to eliminate it (was a bit intemittent). I managed a 99%
cure
eventually, I drove the car for about 1 year aswell after taking it on
when
another family member didn't need it. However I could detect that
occasionally it would threaten to come back, but never caused severe
problems. That pretty much sealed the cars fate, and my opinion of
the 1.7.
+++ well exactly. Ours has had this problem for about 2 years or
more..on and off. At other times she is as reliable as anything and
takes a daily run on the motorway to work and back easily in her
stride. I realise that maybe the 1.7 isn't the best engine in the
world but she is our first car and we are reluctant to get rid of her
when the fix might be simple but just hard to find. But we are
beginning to admit that it might be time I just wish you could take
a look at her and drive her. I feel you could probably tell us in 5
minutes what the mechanic might never find

Any advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks

DD

 

You do find that only a few people have gotten to the bottom of these
difficult problems. The oil in the distributor is one I have had full
experience with, but the air leaks I have not seen personally so I don't
actually know what is wrong with the design, but I have heard reports (on
here) that both carb and manifold have been warped.

From the reving and choke helping, It does sound more likely you have the
air leak problem and the next course of action would be to change the
manifold. I'd get one from a scrap yard (£10) and check the mating surface
for flatness before assembly. I know my car had a good one when it went to
the scrap yard with carb and rust problems.. Most mechanics with a half
decent knowedge should be aware of this problem and how to fix it.

You could also have the oil problem but unless the seal is totally gone, you
wouldn't see oil on the outside of the distributor. Its probably comming
from the valve cover. I heard of the symptoms many times (stalling when
pulling of a junctions), but never heard anyone else had a solution.

Its very hard to get a garage to take back parts that didn't fix the
problem, it seems you have to pay for their lack of correct diagnosys.

The 1.7 is a good engine, very refined, driveable and economical if driven
gently. Its just that its unreliable with at least 2 major design defects I
know of that cause early failure,

 

Hi,

One more thing. This is my own experience: when our volvo 340 1.4
engine (with belt drive) was cold it needed much choke, but not for a
long distance. But when you used the choke too much you get too much
gasonline, the spark plugs get wet, and the warm car won't start. In
Dutch we call that "verzuipen", drowing. Our Volvo was sensitive to
this. The only way to get it going at that point is give full throttle
(and do not let it go up again, also not between starting, as you
don't want the acceleration pump to add more gasoline) and start. This
can take a while, you may have to try starting it a couple of times.

Just one thing I noticed when I started the warm car (habit) with
choke (thinking "o shit, did it again").

But it was a good car. Ran many kilometers.

We changed to a Volvo 440 (1.8i engine) now.

Regards,

Pieter Hoeben

 

+++ Hi again Tony.
Well dropped the car off at the garage this morning. I have printed
off a sheet for him with the symptoms the car is having and also a
list of suggestions from here (and the volvoclub site forum) mainly to
do with the manifold/gasket/air leak problem.

The more I think about it the more it seems likely that this is the
problem as it is reoccuring and was what led us to change the carb in
the first place. So it kinda makes sense that a temp fix had been done
on the gasket with the failing (?) carb (when it was in the volvo
dealership) and then when we got the carb replaced that another temp
fix was done on the gasket. And now it has worn off again.

So I do think you are correct the only way to go is to get a new one
or get it filed down as someone else has suggested. I *do* think the
mechanic will pick up on this as I am sure he told me about problems
and how he had lined the 'gap' with sealant (or whatever it is that
they do?). But will give him a wee ring and make sure he looks at it
anyway.

Thanks for all your help and will let you know how we get on. It is
unfortunate that the 1.7 engine has design flaws as it *does* drive
very well and she is a good car with great bodywork etc and should be
able to keep going for a good couple of years yet. If we can just get
this problem fixed.....keep you posted.

Cheers again
DD

 

+++ Hi Pieter
Yeah I think ours has that problem as well. TBH it is hubbys car and I
was only driving it for a few weeks as it was unreliable on the
motorway. (I only need to do local journeys to work whereas he needs
to go over a very busy motorway and had several scary breakdowns).
When I had trouble restarting her he told me that to restart her warm
he would only pull the choke out ever so slightly almost a finger
nails width and she would start OK. But I do think the current problem
has made this worse. But it seems I *can* get her started this way
again but as you say it takes a few attmepts. They are good cars
aren't they? I feel that to get rid of her now is like putting down an
animal cos it has a sore paw I know I know I am too sentimental but
there it is.

Thanks for all your help. Let you know how it goes.
DD

 

Yes, and safe. Only the mileage is not so good.

We now have a Volvo 440 1.8i (this car was meant by Volvo as successor
of the 340, both were designed and built in the Netherlands). The 440
has a lot of improvements compared to the 340. Road behaviour is
impressive!

Success with your 340

Regards,

Pieter Hoeben

 

Hi

I thought I would let everyone know the verdict on the car after
bothering you with my problems all week.

Picked the car up last night. The mechanic had decided to go with a
fuel pump as he said the present one (apparently the original) was
taking 4-5 mins to refill. He had also done a fair bit of further
investigation into the car. He had taken off the carb and cleaned and
reassembled it paying particular attention to the join with the
gasket/manifold (which he says is fine). Investigated the source of
oil leak and discovered some oil in distributor cap so cleaned that
out. Also checked out the fuel lines and found one of them to be
porous.

The good news is the immediate problem with the car stalling and
iddling erratically seems to be gone. Took her out for quite a long
drive last night and she seems much more stable, driving well and no
indication of cutting out.


The bad news is the mechanic is not optimistic for the future of the
car. He says that the cars hesitation /slight stutter on low throttle
is due to a massive build up of carbon on the engine valves which is
not letting a great deal of petrol through to the engine. He says it
can be fixed but it means completly dismantling the engine and
rebuilding which he says would be in the region of £200 - £400. Also
he said that one of the fuel lines is porous but that they go over the
top or thro the petrol tank and the top of it is badly rusted on. He
doesn't think he would be able to get it off and we would need a new
petrol tank.

So folks any opinions? Is he right and the car is at an end of its
days? Or can she be saved? I think currently our opinion is we will
keep driving her for the present and see how it goes.

Thanks again everyone for your help and advice.

DD

 

The best way to clean the back of the inlet valves without spannering is to
first remove the aircleaner and get some Redex petrol treatment.

Get hold of the throttle linkage and keep the engine revving 3000rpm-ish
whilst pouring in the redex into the carb. Beware you will get massive
clouds of blue smoke. Use about 1/4 of the bottle then let the engine stall
and sit overnight. All parts will be coated in redex and will soften
overnight. You may have to remove and clean the plugs to get it to start
after though. It will be abit smokey for awhile after.

Then run through some fuel injector cleaner (tip in tannk variety) at about
twice concentration. This then does a fair job at flushing through the
softened carbon, and a fast motorway run will help too.

Tim..

 

I think this is a good advice. I would have started with only the
cleaner, but this seems to be better.

But of course there should never have been some much carbon on the
valves. Maybe because of your previous problems? I wonder how the
mechanic saw this.

About the fuel injector: make sure your tank is half-filled when you
poor it in, or use two in a full tank. Then make a very long drive
(how about going to the sea for a day) so the motor gets warm, thats
the point where the carbon really starts to burn away.

Regards,

Pieter

 

Don't worry we enjoy it.

So how do it supply the engine then. It is at the top of the engine, and
old pumps can be a slow to pull fuel from the tank until wet. My old 360
does it with no problems driving, I will change it to fuel injection soon.

He had also done a fair bit of further

Possibly believable.

Investigated the source of

Not really a long term solution

Faily common in car of that age, simple replacement for a few quid.

Probably due to the cleaned distributor cap, which will get oily again.

Not very believable. Severe carbon build on valves up is A) unlikely, B)
will not cause the symptoms he describes. Any restriction would also not
allow a great deal of air into the engine, this is generally know as a
throttle and serves the same function as taking you foot of the accelerator,
basically power loss.

Sounds like he knows what the fault is and is going to stick you for a head
job.

Its getting more unlikely.

I expect the problem will return within a week or 2, if it does take it to
another mechanic.

Assumin the airleak is not the problem the only thing to really worry about
is the oil in the distributor, I am confident that I could provide a 99%
cure with the following. If you were in N.Ireland I would consider a
humanitarian visit, but if not try to find a mechanic who will follow these
instructions in detail:

Assuming rear CAM seal is pushed right in
1. Remove distributor and base
2. Remove valve cover
3. Remove CAM end cap
4. Remove oil seal and clean surfaces maticulously. Inspect CAM for wear
lip from seal. Usually this will be close to the CAM lobes.
5. Put CAM end cap back on and torque up
6. Push new seal in gently with a flat bar until (the very important bit) it
is flush with the surface of the head so that it is sealing on a nice new
piece of CAM.
7. Reassemble remaining, use new valve cover seal and check for oil leaks
from oil cap, breather etc.

 

So next time, do it yourself, is very easy. Take it off (two screws or
clips is all), and clean it, don't take the cables off.

Yes, I also wondered in my other message how he came to this
conclusion. And there should not be too much carbon, certainly not in
a Volvo. If there really is, maybe you make very short drives with the
choke open? Does you car smoke when it is warm, blue smoke?

Hesitation / slow stutter may be due to a little too low petrol level
in the air-petrol mixture. But it could also be ignition. When you
have so incredible much carbon at or around the valves, the whole
mixture can't get in, and you loose power in the maximum range. Try a
little bit of speeding (I am not paying your tickets..) and see what
max. speed you can get.

And hide what he did wrong before,to hide all the costs that were
already made? I don't know, but it is possible? If so, the problem
will certainly come back! And in that case you should really follow
Tony's advice about another mechanic.

I never had rust problems in our Volvos. It is very resistant against
rust, it is built for the Dutch climate.....

Pieter

 

Thanks for all your replies guys...sorry I haven't replied sooner but
not been well this week (never rains but it pours eh?)

Update on the car. Well it looks as if you guys were right about the
garage. Not cause the car is acting up again (yet) probably cause we
haven't been able to drive her much. Came over a speed bump in a
supermarket car park on Monday and the exhaust came clean off! This is
a car that was MOT'd about 2 months ago! How could something like that
be missed? (Ironically hubby is quite 'pleased' he says 'that's a
normal car thing for exhausts to go - we can get that fixed no
problem!')

So we have resolved not to take either of our cars back to that
garage. I think you guys were right and he was just attempting to scam
us for an engine job - he was adamant that that was the next *only*
move and that he had tried *everything* else. I only really realised
that in clarity after you guys criticism of him and his work so thanks
for opening my eyes to that. And we've probably already shelled out
for fuel pump we didn't need.

So anyone know a good (honest??) mechanic in the glasgow area? Any
recommendations would be very gratefully received!


As the volvo goes she is running OK (apart from the exhaust) but we
have found a friend who knows a bit about cars and engines and stuff
and is willing to carry out your recommendations if (and probably
when) the car starts acting up again. So we will at least give her a
chance with that. If it all goes pear shaped and we try out the
solutions and she *still* isn't working then I maybe back to ask for
more advice.

In the meantime thanks again for all your advice. You have probably
saved an aging 340 from a early retirement (with just the knowledge
that the problem may not be insurmountable if you get someone to help
who knows what they are talking about unlike most crook mechanics!)

Cheers
DD