What is a Volvo TDI

[Stephen Henning]

I have been driving Volvos for 40 years and never heard of the TDI. I
have driven in Europe countless times and never saw a car with TDI on
it. I am assuming it is a european diesel model. They are very
uncommon in the USA. Is their anything else special about a TDI? When
did this designation start?

 

[HAL9000F]

I have been driving Volvos for 40 years and never heard of the TDI. I
have driven in Europe countless times and never saw a car with TDI on
it. I am assuming it is a european diesel model. They are very
uncommon in the USA. Is their anything else special about a TDI? When
did this designation start?

Volvo was never selling it in the USA...

Very low consumption for such a big and powerful car. Avg only 6.5
liters per 100 km. I don't know US or GB MPG now...

It started in 1996 with 850 series, and lasted till year 2000 in S/V70
models. Volvo calls the engine D5252T - which is 5 cyl Audi 2.5 TDI
engine with 103kW and 290 Nm of torque.

 

[Roger Mills]

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

I have been driving Volvos for 40 years and never heard of the TDI. I
have driven in Europe countless times and never saw a car with TDI on
it. I am assuming it is a european diesel model. They are very
uncommon in the USA. Is their anything else special about a TDI?
When did this designation start?

TDI is usually taken to mean Turbo Diesel with Intercooler, or perhaps Turbo
Diesel Injection - depending on who you ask! Since all diesel engines are
injected, I prefer the Intercooler version. Some cars (probably not Volvo)
were available in TDI or plain TD (with no intercooler) versions.

The TDI designation has been common in the UK - and probably other parts of
Europe - since at the least the mid 1990's.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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[Tim..]

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,


TDI is usually taken to mean Turbo Diesel with Intercooler, or perhaps
Turbo Diesel Injection -

TDI is usually Turbo Direct Injection.

Tim..

 

[Joerg Lorenz]

TDI is usually Turbo Direct Injection.

Tim..

And the current TDIs are no Audi-engines anymore. They are development
of the light alloy 5-cylinder gasoline engine developped for the 850.

Current engines either have 163hp or 185hp. In Europe they come with a
particles-filter which lowers emissions massively.

I'm owning the 185hp-version after selling my T5 (2001). I simply love
the diesel-engine.

I *guess* in the foreseeable future Volvo will be selling the
Diesel-engine in the US.

Joerg

 

[Stephen Henning]

TDI is usually taken to mean Turbo Diesel with Intercooler, or perhaps Turbo
Diesel Injection - depending on who you ask! Since all diesel engines are
injected, I prefer the Intercooler version.

Thanks for bringing me up to date. I agree with you, if TDI means
injection rather than inter-cooler, it is redundant just as PCV Valve is
redundant (Pollution Control Valve Valve).

Some cars (probably not Volvo)
were available in TDI or plain TD (with no intercooler) versions.

The TDI designation has been common in the UK - and probably other parts of
Europe - since at the least the mid 1990's.

Diesel engines have dropped out of favor here because the price of
diesel fuel has gone up considerably and is hard to find at many gas
stations and truck stops aren't very car friendly. Also, there are not
many good diesel car mechanics around in the US so it is a chicken/egg
situation.

 

[Roadie]

Thanks for bringing me up to date. I agree with you, if TDI means
injection rather than inter-cooler, it is redundant just as PCV Valve is
redundant (Pollution Control Valve Valve).


Diesel engines have dropped out of favor here because the price of
diesel fuel has gone up considerably and is hard to find at many gas
stations and truck stops aren't very car friendly. Also, there are not
many good diesel car mechanics around in the US so it is a chicken/egg
situation.

Diesel and premium gasoline prices have been quite close and moved in
tandem for a long time. So the attraction of a diesel engine would be
if the improved milage is enough to offset what is usually a more
expensive engine. The cost of operating a high mpg car like the Toyota
Corolla or Honda Civic is probably a lot closer to the cost of
operating a comparably sized diesel car because those cars burn
relatively cheap regular gas while diesel fuel is priced above premium
much of the time.

I believe diesel fuel is taxed at a lower rate than gasoline in europe
and that is likely the reason for it's popularity over there.

 

[Tim..]

Thanks for bringing me up to date. I agree with you, if TDI means
injection rather than inter-cooler, it is redundant just as PCV Valve is
redundant (Pollution Control Valve Valve).

Positive Crankcase Ventilation, actually.

Tim..

 

[Sakari Ailus]

I believe diesel fuel is taxed at a lower rate than gasoline in europe
and that is likely the reason for it's popularity over there.

In some countries, yes, diesel fuel is taxed less than petrol (at
least Finland). But diesel-powered cars are taxed more heavily than
petrol-powered. I think this must be somehow different in elsewhere
Europe where diesel-powered cars are far more common. Of course,
reasons could include that diesel engines are more efficient and
generally more durable.

 

[HAL9000F]

Thanks for bringing me up to date. I agree with you, if TDI means
injection rather than inter-cooler, it is redundant just as PCV Valve is
redundant (Pollution Control Valve Valve).

In this case with VW Audi engines, TDI means "Turbo Direct Injection". I
don't think that diesel engines before TDI was introduced were direct
injection diesel engines...

All manufacturers call their diesel engines differently. TDCI, CRDI,
DTI, CDI etc. Since Volvo started making their own diesel for cars it
simply calls it D5...

 

[Roadie]

In some countries, yes, diesel fuel is taxed less than petrol (at
least Finland). But diesel-powered cars are taxed more heavily than
petrol-powered. I think this must be somehow different in elsewhere
Europe where diesel-powered cars are far more common.

I suspect that localities that have a large number of diesel powered
cars encourage their use by lower tax rates.

Of course,
reasons could include that diesel engines are more efficient and
generally more durable.

I have yet to read of a study that shows diesel engines are any more
durable, reliable or long lived than gasoline engines designed for use
in passenger cars. In my experience both designs will last for several
hundreds of thousands of miles IF they are maintained and serviced
frequently.

Again in my experience the long term cost of maintaining and servicing
a diesel engine is roughly the same as a gasoline engine.

 

[Stephen Henning]

I have yet to read of a study that shows diesel engines are any more
durable, reliable or long lived than gasoline engines designed for use
in passenger cars. In my experience both designs will last for several
hundreds of thousands of miles IF they are maintained and serviced
frequently.

Again in my experience the long term cost of maintaining and servicing
a diesel engine is roughly the same as a gasoline engine.

It used to be that the major maintenance item on diesel cars was the
frequent oil changes. Today the maintenance intervals seem to be the
same as gas cars. However, most oil companies still recommend more
frequent oil changes with diesel engines. Diesel engines are very
simple. On the other hand, the gas engines are quite complex and
service is more involved. Diesel engines have a service life 5 to 10
times as long as gas engines.

 

[Roadie]

It used to be that the major maintenance item on diesel cars was the
frequent oil changes. Today the maintenance intervals seem to be the
same as gas cars. However, most oil companies still recommend more
frequent oil changes with diesel engines. Diesel engines are very
simple. On the other hand, the gas engines are quite complex and
service is more involved. Diesel engines have a service life 5 to 10
times as long as gas engines.

Diesel engines have different components from gasoline engines but they
wear too and some are quite expensive to replace. Diesel engines use
glow plugs which do go out. Diesel engines typically require more oil,
use a larger more expensive oil filter and should have their oil and
filter changed frequently. Air and fuel filters tend to be larger and
more expensive.

Both gasoline and diesel engines designed for automobiles can and
regularly do run for many hundreds of thousands of miles. Diesel and
gasoline engines designed for industrial or commercial use will
naturally have a much longer duty cycle built into the design, but they
will cost a lot too.

 

[Stephen Henning]

I don't think that diesel engines before TDI was introduced were direct
injection diesel engines...

Direct injection:
At the end of the piston stroke, diesel fuel is injected into the
combustion chamber at high pressure through an atomising nozzle. The
fuel ignites directly from contact with the air, the temperature of
which reaches 700-900 °C (1300-1650 °F). It was the initial method used
in diesel engines. Direct injection was patented by Akroyd-Stuart in
1890. Rudolf Diesel used direct injection when he patented compression
ignition in 1892.

Indirect injection:
An indirect injection diesel engine delivers fuel into a chamber off the
combustion chamber, called a prechamber, where combustion begins and
then spreads into the main combustion chamber, assisted by turbulence
created in the chamber. This system allows smoother, quieter running,
and because combustion is assisted by turbulence, injector pressures can
be lower, which in the days of mechanical injection systems allowed
high-speed running suitable for road vehicles (typically up to speed of
around 4,000 rpm). The prechamber had the disadvantage of increasing
heat loss to the engine's cooling system and restricting the combustion
burn, which reduced the efficiency by between 5-10% in comparison to a
direct injection engine, and nearly all require some form of cold-start
device such as glow plugs. Indirect injection engines were used widely
in small-capacity high-speed diesel engines in automotive, marine and
construction uses from the 1950s. Use of indirect injection was
somewhat curtailed when direct-injection technology advanced in the
1980s.

 

[Stephen Henning]

I don't think that diesel engines before TDI was introduced were direct
injection diesel engines...

As a follow up, TDI is an implementation of "common rail direct
injection."

In older diesel engines, a distributor-type injection pump, regulated by
the engine, supplies bursts of fuel to injectors which are simply
nozzles through which the diesel is sprayed into the engine's combustion
chamber.

In common rail systems, the distributor injection pump is eliminated.
Instead an extremely high pressure pump stores a reservoir of fuel at
high pressure - up to 1,800 bar (180 MPa, 26,000 psi) - in a "common
rail", basically a tube which in turn branches off to
computer-controlled injector valves, each of which contains a
precision-machined nozzle and a plunger driven by a solenoid.

Most European automakers have common rail diesels in their model
lineups, even for commercial vehicles. Some Japanese manufacturers, such
as Toyota, Nissan and recently Honda, have also developed common rail
diesel engines.

Different car makers refer to their common rail engines by different
names, e.g. DaimlerChrysler's CDI, Ford Motor Company's TDCi (most of
these engines are manufactured by PSA), Fiat Group's (Fiat, Alfa Romeo
and Lancia) JTD, Renault's DCi, GM/Opel's CDTi (most of these engines
are manufactured by Fiat, other by Isuzu), Hyundai's CRDi, Mitsubishi's
D-ID, PSA Peugeot Citroen's HDi, Toyota's D-4D, Volkswagen's TDi, and so
on.

[ref: http://www.fusel.com/diesel_engines.html ]

 

[Michael Pardee]

It used to be that the major maintenance item on diesel cars was the
frequent oil changes. Today the maintenance intervals seem to be the
same as gas cars. However, most oil companies still recommend more
frequent oil changes with diesel engines. Diesel engines are very
simple. On the other hand, the gas engines are quite complex and
service is more involved. Diesel engines have a service life 5 to 10
times as long as gas engines.
--

Since current gasoline engines have 10-25 year and 200-300 K mile lives, I
dunno about the 5-10 times as long claim. 50 to 250 years or 1 to 5 million
miles?

Mike

 

[M-gineering]

Since current gasoline engines have 10-25 year and 200-300 K mile lives, I
dunno about the 5-10 times as long claim. 50 to 250 years or 1 to 5 million
miles?

Mike

Forget about servicelife. The pluspoint of old style diesels was that
once they had started they would keep running. With modern electronics
and high pollutionstandards that has become a bit more doubtfull. Modern
engines last long enough for something else to give up.
However loads of bottom torque, 1000 km's on a tank and depending on the
mileage slighty lower operating cost still count. As was needing only
one companypump to fill the trucks and the cars

 

[Stephen Henning]

Since current gasoline engines have 10-25 year and 200-300 K mile lives, I
dunno about the 5-10 times as long claim. 50 to 250 years or 1 to 5 million
miles?

According to a study by the University of Colorado Leeds School of
Business, diesel trucks have a service life of one million miles (which
is 5 to 8 times the service life for cars you quoted). They accumulate
this in about 7 years. I have no data on diesel cars, but it is
probably less because most owners don't keep up the required
maintenance, as simple as it is.

 

[Roadie]

According to a study by the University of Colorado Leeds School of
Business, diesel trucks have a service life of one million miles (which
is 5 to 8 times the service life for cars you quoted). They accumulate
this in about 7 years. I have no data on diesel cars, but it is
probably less because most owners don't keep up the required
maintenance, as simple as it is.

Oh come on now, at least compare engines designed for comparable
applications. Comparing the service life of a truck diesel engine to
that of an engine used in a car?

It is certainly possible to produce a car engine (gas or diesel) with
an average service life of 1 million miles but the cost would be
prohibitive for most owners. And purposeless because most drivers
would not use it for that long.

It's time to kill that myth.

 

[Michael Pardee]

According to a study by the University of Colorado Leeds School of
Business, diesel trucks have a service life of one million miles (which
is 5 to 8 times the service life for cars you quoted). They accumulate
this in about 7 years. I have no data on diesel cars, but it is
probably less because most owners don't keep up the required
maintenance, as simple as it is.

Well, 3 to 5 times as long. OTOH, if the hauling trucks were used for trips
to the store to pick up milk I doubt the advantage would be nearly so great.
Short trips take a toll on any engine. Mostly I see claims of double life
for diesels compared to gasoline engines in equivalent service.

I'm not knocking diesels; the work truck I've had the past year is a turbo
diesel and mostly I love it. (Not the balky six speed tranny, but that isn't
a fault of the engine.) I've been warned to let it warm up a bit on cold
days and it is a nightmare for merging or left turns in heavy traffic, but
on the road it is powerful and the fuel economy is just about double what
the previous "gasser" gave. That means I can go to remote areas far from
home and not have to worry about finding an open gas station. A month after
I got it I found myself in the far reaches of the Navajo reservation around
midnight. The old truck would have been getting mighty low on gas by then.
The torque characteristics are also very nice for off-road operation,
especially in sand and for rock crawling.

I also hear the common rail diesels have better cold-starting and
drivability characteristics than even the TDi's. They are even supposed to
be better in terms of smell, although the characteristic diesel clatter is
controlled only by sound insulation.

I understand your enthusiasm for diesels and I hope I live to see serial
hybrids (electric cars with on-board generators) using advanced diesel power
plants. It could be an amazing thing.

Mike