Please help --which order of diagnosis for '87 740 Turbo No start !

[circuit slave]

Hi,

I had a turbo boost problem --lack of power which I took care of. Now
the car broke down on the freeway and it's really starting to
aggravate.

I initially thougth it was the fuel relay and so I pulled it and
resoldered to contacts and it was running fine---last time it would
intermittent start was like 3 weeks ago. The car started up every
time. I even bought new spark plugs.

I thought it was the fuel pump because it was buzzing under the
car--thinking it was the intank pump going out, but it's been fine. I
was on the freeway yesterday and going 70mph and then the car
deaccelerated and came to a stop.

Now it just turns over and over but doesn't start. I checked the
timing belt and it's fine.

In what order would YOU go to try and solve? thanks

 

[HankL]

Get some starting fluid - if it runs, you have a fuel problem - if not the
flywheel sensor needs to be replaced $35 at parts store - more at Volvo.

 

[Boris Mohar]

The fuel pump relay can fail in two major ways. One is due to open solder
joints on the circuit board which you took care of. The other is contact
erosion. Take out that relay again and clean the contacts, especially one
closer to the middle with 600 abrasive paper. I fold a piece on it self and
cut a small sliver from it. Using tweezers I insert this double sided
abrasive in between the contacts and work them smooth.

Hi,

I had a turbo boost problem --lack of power which I took care of. Now
the car broke down on the freeway and it's really starting to
aggravate.

I initially thougth it was the fuel relay and so I pulled it and
resoldered to contacts and it was running fine---last time it would
intermittent start was like 3 weeks ago. The car started up every
time. I even bought new spark plugs.

I thought it was the fuel pump because it was buzzing under the
car--thinking it was the intank pump going out, but it's been fine. I
was on the freeway yesterday and going 70mph and then the car
deaccelerated and came to a stop.

Now it just turns over and over but doesn't start. I checked the
timing belt and it's fine.

In what order would YOU go to try and solve? thanks

Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca

void _-void-_ in the obvious place

 

[James Sweet]

Get some starting fluid - if it runs, you have a fuel problem - if not the
flywheel sensor needs to be replaced $35 at parts store - more at Volvo.

It's an '87, so it has no flywheel sensor. Instead it uses a hall sensor
in the distributor. First thing to check is if it has a spark, that's
easy enough. If the engine wiring harness is original then it will need
to be rewired or replaced, if that's not the problem now it will leave
you stranded later.

 

[circuit slave]

I FIXED IT !!!!!!! I am so happy. The wiring harness is old and
crumbly. The car wouldn't start and so I started to fiddle with that
block terminal--- there' s two (maybe you guys can explain).

The one in the back that connects to the ignition coil-- it was tie
wrapped under and I fiddled with it while I had someone start the car.
It would start and then die. Start and then die. You had to give it
gas on the pedal to keep it going. Well, anyway, with the ingnition in
on position-- you could hear the injectors intermittently click.

I carefully pulled both connection blocks (the large grey one and
small grey one) out and individually wrapped each of them in tiny
spiral wrap plastic.

It starts ! yay!!!!! You don't know how glad I am----this has been
going on for like 5 years I think !

NOW I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS:

1. Is this part of the wiring harness when bought? I mean can this
portion be bought separately?
Instead of the rip off dealer price for the whole harness?

2. Underneath the car I thought what I saw was a disconnected
electrical plug--so I plugged it and the car started (I think this was
just coincidence in moving the car creating the short) but I plugged it
in and the over drive arrow light appeared on the dash and it wouldn't
go out when pushing in the button. Is this somehow wrong?

I mean is the arrow supposed to be lit or not? I mean before the light
would stay off and then you push the button and it goes on. But then
why is it disconnected under the car then?

thanks guys for helping me figure it out---if I didn't find it by
accident : )

 

[circuit slave]

aarrrrrrg!!!!!!!!! The car just broke down again : (

I went to put in gas and then it died. I tried to start it--it started
up and then I gave it gas and it died. It just turns over and over !

 

[Michael Pardee]

aarrrrrrg!!!!!!!!! The car just broke down again : (

I went to put in gas and then it died. I tried to start it--it started
up and then I gave it gas and it died. It just turns over and over !

Kind of a shotgun approach, but given the prevalence of problems and the
sort of symptoms you have: check and/or thoroughly clean up the connections
at the positive post of the battery. Our 85 has a separate wire that
attaches to the clamp bolt itself, and when that ring terminal gets funky
the engine dies. There is also a 10 AWG red or brown or orange (never could
tell which) wire that comes away from that clamp that likes to corrode in
two. Drove me completely crazy when it happened to mine.

BTW - a quick-and-dirty way of deciding whether to suspect ignition or fuel
in these beasts is to watch for the tach kicking when cranking. No kick
every second or so usually means no ignition.

Mike

 

[James Sweet]

1. Is this part of the wiring harness when bought? I mean can this
portion be bought separately?
Instead of the rip off dealer price for the whole harness?

The wiring harness runs from the ECU in the passenger footwell and
snakes all around the engine under the intake manifold, over around to
the air mass meter and interconnects with the ignition harness. If you
found crumbling wires, I assure you there are more, if you remove the
harness and split it open, the large bundle of wires under the intake
manifold will have the insulation crumbling which causes bare ignition
wires to mingle with bare injection wires and the end result is either
no spark, no fuel, or intermittent gremlins. Remove, then rebuild or
replace this harness, the car will never be dependable with it in its
current state and there's no way you can repair it sufficiently with it
snaked around the motor.

2. Underneath the car I thought what I saw was a disconnected
electrical plug--so I plugged it and the car started (I think this was
just coincidence in moving the car creating the short) but I plugged it
in and the over drive arrow light appeared on the dash and it wouldn't
go out when pushing in the button. Is this somehow wrong?

I mean is the arrow supposed to be lit or not? I mean before the light
would stay off and then you push the button and it goes on. But then
why is it disconnected under the car then?

That sounds like the overdrive solenoid wire. The arrow should be lit
only when the overdrive is disabled by pressing the button on the side
of the shift knob. If the wire to the solenoid was disconnected then the
overdrive would not engage regardless of whether the arrow was off or
not, unless someone modified the solenoid to eliminate the sometimes
troublesome and rarely used lockout feature.

 

[James Sweet]

aarrrrrrg!!!!!!!!! The car just broke down again : (

I went to put in gas and then it died. I tried to start it--it started
up and then I gave it gas and it died. It just turns over and over !

See my last post, your wiring harness is shot.

 

[circuit slave]

BTW - a quick-and-dirty way of deciding whether to suspect ignition or fuel
in these beasts is to watch for the tach kicking when cranking. No kick
every second or so usually means no ignition.




Mike

Mike, the tach does jump on turning on the ignition--I thought it was
the ignition as well, but I jiggled it while starting and it starts the
engine turning over and over.

 

[circuit slave]

Okay, so what you're saying, James, is the arrow on the dash is lit
most of the time while driving, and then when you use the overdrive
(press the little button) it should go out, but it is enabled ?

 

[circuit slave]

That's exactly what it looks like, James--by the manifold the fat
bundle of wires by the idle control valve---they're crumbly and
bare---I'll look at this. Thanks for all the help you've been
providing : )

 

[James Sweet]

Okay, so what you're saying, James, is the arrow on the dash is lit
most of the time while driving, and then when you use the overdrive
(press the little button) it should go out, but it is enabled ?

No, the arrow should normally be off, if the arrow is on, then it means
the overdrive is locked out, just like if you put the shifter to "2"
instead of "D", 3rd gear will be locked out. The OD lockout (arrow on)
can be useful if you're towing a trailer or going up some hills that
cause the transmission to hunt, that is shift in and out of overdrive
not able to decide which gear to stay in.

 

[circuit slave]

James, have you replaced the harness before? Is there a diagram
somewhere, or should I just tag each connection before removing?

thanks

 

[Michael Pardee]

James, have you replaced the harness before? Is there a diagram
somewhere, or should I just tag each connection before removing?

thanks

I just stretched my new one out on the ground before removing the old one,
and used masking tape to identify the conectors. I started at the battery
end, looking at the connector style, and matched each with the one on the
existing harness. The fuel injector connectors are interchangable, so
connect them where they reach best.

After I labeled them, I disconnected the big connector near the battery
(oh - the battery was already disconnected at this point!) and connected the
new harness there. I worked my way down, disconnecting the old and
connecting the new as I went. I had to cut off the old injector connectors,
because the old harness was too stiff to fit through the manifold there.

Look carefully where the wire connects to the starter. I put the wire on the
wrong terminal and decided the starter went bad while working on the
harness. D'oh! Also don't forget the oil sender wire, which also runs a long
way around the engine. All told, including my starter error and working
slowly, I spent most of a day doing the replacement. It could be done in an
hour by a fast worker who wasn't so very cautious.

Mike

 

[James Sweet]

I just stretched my new one out on the ground before removing the old one,
and used masking tape to identify the conectors. I started at the battery
end, looking at the connector style, and matched each with the one on the
existing harness. The fuel injector connectors are interchangable, so
connect them where they reach best.

After I labeled them, I disconnected the big connector near the battery
(oh - the battery was already disconnected at this point!) and connected the
new harness there. I worked my way down, disconnecting the old and
connecting the new as I went. I had to cut off the old injector connectors,
because the old harness was too stiff to fit through the manifold there.

Look carefully where the wire connects to the starter. I put the wire on the
wrong terminal and decided the starter went bad while working on the
harness. D'oh! Also don't forget the oil sender wire, which also runs a long
way around the engine. All told, including my starter error and working
slowly, I spent most of a day doing the replacement. It could be done in an
hour by a fast worker who wasn't so very cautious.

Mike

When I rebuilt my harness I left it connected to the ECU and just
unwound it from the engine, taking a few digital pics along the way. The
oil pressure sender wire looked ok, it was below freezing and I was
working outside in front of my house so I just cut the wire and put a
connector on it rather than jack up the car, remove the belly pan and
muck with disconnecting the wire. I cut out all the damaged wires one at
a time and soldered in new ones between the connector and a good section
of harness by the firewall. If I'd had one on hand I would have just
replaced the whole harness though, or picked up a used one and rewired
it inside the warm house but this did get me back on the road.

 

[circuit slave]

Thanks, Mike and James---it's the dumb crumbly harness---I just got it
started again !

I'm going by some spiral loom just to see if I can pinpoint where the
faults are---I will order a updated OEM harness


P.S. the oil light flickers now ? I'll check the oil--but I read
other's with flickering oil light, what's it mean?

 

[James Sweet]

Thanks, Mike and James---it's the dumb crumbly harness---I just got it
started again !

I'm going by some spiral loom just to see if I can pinpoint where the
faults are---I will order a updated OEM harness


P.S. the oil light flickers now ? I'll check the oil--but I read
other's with flickering oil light, what's it mean?

Did you check and see if Dave Barton has any harnesses for that year
car? He's the best deal I've seen as far as having what you need in
stock and knowing it's the right part. You might get lucky on ebay or in
a local wrecking yard but that's a gamble. If you're handy with a
soldering iron you can pick up some wire and heatshrink tubing and
rebuild an old harness, best to pick one up from a wrecker and rewire
that so you don't forget how everything goes together.

The oil light flickering could be low oil pressure, a bad sender, or
simply crumbling wiring, it's in the same harness.

 

[Michael Pardee]

Thanks, Mike and James---it's the dumb crumbly harness---I just got it
started again !

I'm going by some spiral loom just to see if I can pinpoint where the
faults are---I will order a updated OEM harness


P.S. the oil light flickers now ? I'll check the oil--but I read
other's with flickering oil light, what's it mean?

That is disturbing - it is probably a sender or wiring problem, but you
can't just ignore it. If the sender has a drop of oil on the terminal where
it has been leaking you can be sure the sender needs to be replaced. If the
light still flickers with the sender disconnected you know you have a wiring
problem with it.

If the sender needs to be replaced you can do that easily enough. If the
problem is in the harness you can live with it until you get a new harness
in, but then how will you know if you really have oil pressure problems?

Mike

 

[circuit slave]

Right--actually since the harness was crumbling---I temporarily sprial
wrapped it --and I think it's fine.


Mike, and James, I have a question. I think my turbo might blow up. I
started a thread here:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt....6cb64e?q=shaved+turbo&rnum=1#194d4128236cb64e

and I cleaned out the oil trap and now the engine has sucking at the
oil cap like it should and no more fumes and smell and smoke in the
engine area like before---

But I think the pressure is now blowing the hose out of the "Y' elbow
nipple from pressure ?

It didn't do this before when it was clogged. How can I test the
actuator or make sure it's opening. Doesn't it open after boost?
maybe that's why whomever shaved a hole in the compressor side of the
turbo?