Which car for sixteen year old?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

Thought you did - until Pearl Harbour!

 

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

Yes, but not at 16 for God's sake! And only when you are old enough to drive
it responsibly and to finance it yourself.

 

Omaha beach? Worse disaster than Dunkirk except for the Yanks turned it
around instead of heading home.

But I digress.

Any suggestions for the original question instead of going off on your
personal views of children driving?

 

I don't know what your budget is, but these are some of the vehicles
that I consider to be extremely safe(I'm only including the midsize
and large safe vehicles in this list, but there are some small safe
vehicles out there as well).
I've done a lot of research on which vehicles are safe and I've looked
at tons of factors such as injury rates, front crash tests, side crash
tests, front offset crash tests, rollover resistance measurements,
braking, reputation, etc.
These are just a few of the vehicles that I would consider EXTREMELY
Safe.
All the vehicles I've included have either standard or optional Side
Air Bags, and you should always get vehicles with Side Air Bags
whenever possible since I read that 52% of all traffic deaths happen
in side impacts even though side impacts only make up about 1/4th of
all accidents.
Anyway here's the list.

2001 or Newer Volvo S80

2002 or Newer Lexus ES300/ES330

2004 Acura TSX

2002 or newer Saab 9-5

2004 Chrysler Pacifica

2002 or newer Acura MDX

2003 or newer Honda Pilot

2004 or newer Volvo XC90

There are several other safe vehicles as well, but these are just the
ones I included in this post.


There are 2 other factors that people really don't test or pay enough
attention to, but I consider these factors to be pretty important as
well.

1 factor is fuel tank placement(the safest place for a car's fuel tank
is ahead of the rear axle).
Some cars such as Mustangs, Crown Victoras, etc have the fuel tank
behind the rear axle, the Pinto also had the fuel tank behind the rear
axle.


The other major really important factor that is undertested is how
strong the roof is on a vehicle.
I saw a rollover crash test comparison on the Discovery Science
Channel of a Volvo XC90 SUV vs a Ford F-150, and the Volvo's roof was
like a tanks and it had incredible structural integrity and it could
have withstood even several times the force and weight that it
withstood during the test.
The F-150s roof on the other hand was like it was made of tinfoil, it
was crushed like a paper cup under the weight of the F-150 when it
was upside down.

 

Amen to that. We live in area not served by public transporation. If my
kid...six months away from driving...needs to go anywhere...we get to
drive. Once licensed, we can reduce our chauffer time. I chose a 10 year
old 960 for her. Possibly overpowered, but uber-safe with room for stuff
(stuff equals guitar/amp). She's tired of being shlepped around by her
parents, and we are ready to add her to the mix of options for getting
her to the places she needs to be. She's an excellent student, and
understands the consquences of irresponsibility with an
automobile...worst of all, will be the return to being hauled around by
parents.

 

The 960, while maybe a little overwhelming for a novice driver to control
that much power to the rear wheels, will make her a better driver. She will
have to learn to really manipulate the throttle properly when it rains and
snows. And it will bring confidence when having to merge into traffic, not
the usual fear that most young drivers have (the 960's have fantastic
visibility too, so merging is even easier).

I was 16 when I started off driving our 960 and I never drove it into a
ditch or anything bad. Our ratty, 100 horsepower VW got me into more trouble
then the Volvo ever did - I never crashed it, but it was more fun to drive,
so it encouraged learning bad habits. With a car like the 960, I felt like I
should act the part, drive the responsible looking and feeling car,
responsibly.

 

'91-'93 240 would be a good one, might want to seriously consider a wagon as
they've got a ton of space in the back. For something a bit more modern
looking a 740 or 940 of similar vintage is also an excellent car. Just avoid
any that have the V6. All the 4's, and the later inline 6's are fine, but
the V6 is not nearly such a sure bet. I'm also quite partial to Saab 900's,
nearly as much space as a Volvo wagon, fairly comfortable, fairly safe, and
arguably a bit nicer to drive. Both are somewhat quirky cars with a lot more
personality than the average econo-box.

 

Radical snipping

Any BMW's make your list?
TIA

 

Well, the problem is that the people who do crash tests have limited
funds so they usually test the more average priced and most popular
vehicles.
I suspect that many cars such as the Lexus LS430, BMW 7 Series and
Audi A8 are in the same league as the Volvo S80 or better, but
unfortunately there's really insufficient data to determine how safe
those luxury cars are.
They do have sufficient data on the newer BMW 3 series though, and the
problem with that car was that it only got 3 out of 5 stars in the
side impact crash test for the front seat occupants, and the data
basically said that there would be a high likelyhood of pelvic injury
in a side impact crash for people sitting in the front seats.
Here's a link.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2660.html

The BMW X5 did pretty good in the other tests, but it only got 3 stars
in the rollover resistance test.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2232.html

I think almost all the newer BMWs do great in the front offset crash
test, and I wouldn't worry about a front crash in a BMW, but I'm not
so sure about how well they'd do in a side impact since very few BMWs
have been tested in the side impact crash test and the 3 series that
was tested didn't do well in the side impact crash test.

If you have no choice but to get a BMW, then in my opinon based on an
educated guess, I'd guess that the 7 series is the safest BMW, and the
5 series is the 2nd safest.

The 2000-2002 BMW 7 series did have a pretty good injury rate(twice as
good as the average car) and better than the Volvo S80 and the Saab
9-5 sedan.

The 2000-20002 BMW 5 series had a slightly better injury rate than the
Volvo S80 and slightly worse than the Saab 9-5 sedan.
There's a whole bunch of info about injury rates at the link below.
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl.htm

Don't forget to try and get a car with side air bags.

At this link you can see results for various BMWs in various different
kinds of tests, and as you can see, they just don't crash test most
BMWs enough to get much data about them.
The lack of data about side impact results is the most frustrating
thing since side impact protection is very important because the
majority of traffic deaths happen in side impacts.
http://www.safecarguide.com/mak/bmw/idx.htm

 

Yea, the kids I mentioned in the original post that were killed went in two
different ways...side impact or flipping an SUV.

 

Before buying any Volvo, do a Google search. Like, "Volvo S80
problem", that should, to say the least, open your eyes and not your
wallet. Another good search is "Volvo 240 crash".

Saty away from the new ones, since 1999. Of the old ones, the 240,
preferrably a '93, is unbeattable for common sense safety. ABS, air
bags are real nice, but if it boost your confidence about how safe you
are and you end up taking more risks, than you are not better off.

Turbos have often been abused by their owners and will cost you a lot
more dough to fix and maintain. Non-turbo 240s with Bosch platinum
plugs and hi-grade fuel will give you a nice kick, in particular if
you floor the gas.

740 and 940 have the same engine than the '93 240. Just slightly more
modern in equipments and trim. Also, the '93 240 was the first 240
with air bag for driver and A/C using the "modern" gas.

The 850 are front wheel and because everything is so packed under the
hood, it always cost more to fix than 240/740/940.

The 760 is a very nice car, if you can find one. I know, I had one.
It was my only Volvo with a turbo.

960/S90 are super cool, but parts are pricey. Forget any prior to
'96. The best is the '98, the last year of the rear wheel drive, the
last year of the true Volvo and the last produced under Volvo
ownership.

I've had many 240s in my lifeand they are unbeattable for common sense
safety. Still have one, a '93

For teenagers, I would get the safest car possible and make it cool.
Like tainted window (so they can ... in the car without being seen),
as well as a premium sound system. Make sure the sound system is not
one of those that can be stolen and installed in another car.
Otherwise it won't last long. I had one stolen in one of my 240s.
Fuc**** dumb thief was not smart enough to use a piece of metal to
easily unlocjk the door. He broke the window frame, broke the window
and damaged the dashboard. I replaced it with one with a front plate
detachable. Never had a theft since and it makes 4 years I have it.

Hope it helps, that's all the time I have.

 

Thanks, didn't know that tidbit.

Just spent almost 4k getting my 97 960 back on the road.

This is for my DAUGHTER!!!

 

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

Like I said, give her a bicycle - and you'll avoid *that* danger, and keep
her fit! <g>

P.S. I like the use of "tainted". He probably meant tinted, but tainted says
it all!

 

One more important thing I forgot is the following: Regarding air
bags, all Volvos up to roughly 2000, have a sticker on the side on the
door stipulating the date at which the air bags must be changed. For
example, on my '93 240, it says 2003. When Volvo cars were produced
under the ownership of Volvo, air bags were deemed to be good enough
for 10 years. Replacing a single front air bag will set you back ~$2K
(rough approximation - could be much higher or slightly less -
depending on model).

After Volvo Cars Corp. was purchased by Ford, MAGIC!!! From now on,
the air bags are good for 15 years!!! Ain't that great???????
Doesn't matter Volvo estimated that air bags' life is 10 years, now
Ford says keep it it for 15 instead. Remember, Ford is the inventor
or the rollover 4X4 and explosive gas tanks. Ford is the company
where settling lawsuits is cheaper than fixing a defect on a car...

Btw, I unplugged the air bag in my '93 240.

Regarding the "tainted" window... Few weeks ago, I had the
opportunity to read a report regarding sex and teenagers (btw, I'm in
my 40s). And I was, to say the least, confused. According to the
report dealing with the situation in America, teenagers are using sex
at school in exchange for homeworks and similar. Like in, "you do my
homework and I'll give you a hand job, a blow job or even the whole
thing". The age group defined in the report were as young as 11 but
concentrated more on the 13-17. Before I read that, I never believed
it. It sure wasn't like that when I was a teenager.

Moreover, peers pressure is at an all time high. The internet has
also affected our teenagers. Nowadays, it's not easy being a
teenager.

 

I reread your original post and I realized that your budget is $5000.
Frankly, I don't think you can get 5 star side impact protection in a
used car for less than about $7000.
You can still get some pretty safe cars with 4 star side impact
protection for $5000 though, like you can probably get a very high
milage 1998/1999 Volkswagen Passat with Side Air Bags standard or a
1995-1997 Volvo 850 with optional Side Air Bags.
It's not a BMW, but at least it's German, maybe that's worth
something.
The Passat was named one of the 5 safest cars of all time in 2001.
Here are some crash test results for the Passat
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/98002.htm

The 1998/1999 Passats were never crash tested in side impacts, but I'd
think that they're the same structurally as the 2000 Passat that was
tested.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/1491.html

Here are the results for the 2004 Passat in the rollover test, I'd
think that the 1998/1999 Passat would have the same rollover
resistance rating.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2989.html

Here's the injury rate for the 2000-2002 Passat(100 is average and the
lower the rate the better)
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_4dr.htm


Here are some crash test results for the Volvo 850
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/95005.htm
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/607.html
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/197.html

Here's the death rate for the Volvo 850(89 is average and the lower
the number the better).
http://www.hwysafety.org/sr_ddr/sr3507_t2.htm

Here's the injury rate for the Volvo 850(100 is average and the lower
the number the better).
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/previous/ictl_0399.pdf

There's just one thing about the Volvo 850 that has me slightly
concerned about it.
The 1998 Volvo S70 didn't do too well in the European Front Offset
Crash test, and the Volvo S70 is essentially very similar if not
identical to the Volvo 850 structurally.
Here's the test I'm talking about.
http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=4&id2=54

The 850 did however do great in the IIHS front offset crash test, so
maybe the European test of the S70 really doesn't matter.
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/95005.htm

 

<<
One more important thing I forgot is the following: Regarding air bags, all
Volvos up to roughly 2000, have a sticker on the side on the door stipulating
the date at which the air bags must be changed. For example, on my '93 240, it
says 2003. When Volvo cars were produced under the ownership of Volvo, air
bags were deemed to be good enough or 10 years. Replacing a single front air
bag will set you back ~$2K (rough approximation - could be much higher or
slightly less -depending on model). >>

Has ANYONE ever replaced their airbag routinely?? I have a 1990 745T and have
never considered replacing mine......Just wondering.



reply to my real e~mail account for faster response.

 

[Nobody] (Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:54:22 GMT):

Not changed, checked, if I recall correctly..

 

Not quite. Up until Volvo Corp sold its car division to Ford, Volvo
was recommending to change the air bag after 10 years. AFAIK, the
technology was new and in Volvo's best judgement, it was safe to use
an air bag for a period of 10 years. Naturally, ownership and
management are now with Ford.

Personally, I'm not concerned about the air bag not deploying when
needed. What REALLY concern me, is the deployment of the bag at
random. It has happened at least once. The person posted his story
somewhere on the net.

If I recall correctly, the car involved was a 740 and was more than 10
yr old. The daughter opened the driver door, sat on the seat and
started the car. The bag deployed and got the daughter to hospital.
I think nothing was broken, but it was apparently very bloody...

Here's something I just found on the net after Googling.

"Air Bag Lifetime. [Query:] Airbag-SRS needs a check after 10 years.

[Response:Bob] Volvo's intent for the 10 year SRS service (as
indicated on the sticker) was to replace the air bag and check the
system for faults via the SRS diagnostic conector. The bag replacement
interval was extended to 15 years. If the SRS light comes on with key
in run position and goes out after approximately 10 seconds or at
engine start, all is well. The bag replacement and fault check can be
a DIY job but I strongly urge you to leave this to trained technician.
The major portion of the costs incurred will be for parts anyway."

It's your life, not mine, you may do as you please.

 

They have revised the life of the airbags upwards to 15 years so your label can
be altered to read 2008.

Cheers, Peter.

: [Nobody] (Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:54:22 GMT):
:
: >One more important thing I forgot is the following: Regarding air
: >bags, all Volvos up to roughly 2000, have a sticker on the side on the
: >door stipulating the date at which the air bags must be changed. For
: >example, on my '93 240, it says 2003. When Volvo cars were produced
: >under the ownership of Volvo, air bags were deemed to be good enough
: >for 10 years. Replacing a single front air bag will set you back ~$2K
: >(rough approximation - could be much higher or slightly less -
: >depending on model).
:
: Not changed, checked, if I recall correctly..
: --
: Svein Tore Sølvik
: 1996 Volvo 850 2,5 20v

 

[Nobody] (Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:42:12 GMT):

I'm not concerned.. One out of how many airbags made for volvo?